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[WanderingKid]

FurnaceClans is hitting 2000+ dead and the missing migrants still appearing in Therapist is annoying the heck out of me.

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the command in DFHack to fix this.  Can someone point me in the right direction?  After 30 minutes of scanning the ls menu, I give up on self-help.

[4maskwolf]

tweak clear-missing on the guys who are still listed as such, I believe

[WanderingKid]

tweak clear-missing on the guys who are still listed as such, I believe

Oh lord.  That is done from the units - death menu?

I know there's a bulk command for the dead list in general, at least all the generic people.

[4maskwolf]

Perhaps there is, and I just can't find it.  Try here

[WanderingKid]

Ah, that's helpful, thanks.

Side note: I got all the missing beggars cleared out, but Therapist isn't updating (even with a restart of DF).  Kinda drove home the point of the # of dead, though...

....

Found it, it's fix/dead-units.  It's not listed as an available command in ls, or not that I can see anyway.  Interesting.  Also doesn't have a fix/help or a fix/?.  Well, that helped one concern.  Now if I could just get Therapist to accept that they're dead...

[4maskwolf]

Are they ghosts?  Because ghosts show up in therapist.  Also, kidnapped children.

[WanderingKid]

No.  They got zombified before they even made it indoors.  Reference: FurnaceClans is a Single Pick Challenge fort that has been underground for over 20 years while I built a massive trap to clear the surface.  The migrants get sucked into it too for the moment.

I have 23 citizens, including children, in my units list.  Dwarf Therapist is listing 108.  It's frustrating because I have to use migration wave to keep the 'live ones' sorted up on top so I can't use a lot of the sorting tools I prefer.

[Hetairos]

To see the other "fix" commands, check the hack\scripts\fix folder. The scripts usually have a comment explaining what they do at the beginning.

fix/dead-units is actually intended to clear the dead units list so migrants can come again.

[Larix]

Until you find a workaround for the unresponsive therapist, you could probably reduce frustration by managing your dwarfs in the game itself. 23 isn't that much; i find i can easily handle about forty dwarfs with DF's own UI.

[Maolagin]

To see the other "fix" commands, check the hack\scripts\fix folder. The scripts usually have a comment explaining what they do at the beginning.

Code: [Select]

ls -a shows all runnable commands. But yeah, a lot of the hacks and fixes don't have actual help, so you need to peek at the files for comments.

[WanderingKid]

23 isn't that much; i find i can easily handle about forty dwarfs with DF's own UI.

I'd rather perform my own dental work, honestly.

To see the other "fix" commands, check the hack\scripts\fix folder. The scripts usually have a comment explaining what they do at the beginning.

fix/dead-units is actually intended to clear the dead units list so migrants can come again.

Code: [Select]

ls -a shows all runnable commands. But yeah, a lot of the hacks and fixes don't have actual help, so you need to peek at the files for comments.

Appreciate the tips.  I'll try to remember to do that next time.  I realize dead-units was a migrants fix but I'd hoped between that and clearing the missing tags that Therapist would have expected behavior again.

[Quietust]

23 isn't that much; i find i can easily handle about forty dwarfs with DF's own UI.

I'd rather perform my own dental work, honestly.

What about Manipulator (DFHack plugin)?

[WanderingKid]

23 isn't that much; i find i can easily handle about forty dwarfs with DF's own UI.

I'd rather perform my own dental work, honestly.

What about Manipulator (DFHack plugin)?

Not overly familiar with it.  I'll give it a go soon but I'm led to believe it's still relatively primitive for sorting by jobs/skills, applying default jobs, etc, from what I've read up on it.  There's a lot in Therapist I find very useful.

[CaptainArchmage]

FurnaceClans is hitting 2000+ dead and the missing migrants still appearing in Therapist is annoying the heck out of me.

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the command in DFHack to fix this.  Can someone point me in the right direction?  After 30 minutes of scanning the ls menu, I give up on self-help.

I tried it in Moltenchannels, but we didn't get any more migrants. Not even a message. I believe you should try the "force migrants" script, I don't know how well that will work though.

[WanderingKid]

23 isn't that much; i find i can easily handle about forty dwarfs with DF's own UI.

I'd rather perform my own dental work, honestly.

What about Manipulator (DFHack plugin)?

Not overly familiar with it.  I'll give it a go soon but I'm led to believe it's still relatively primitive for sorting by jobs/skills, applying default jobs, etc, from what I've read up on it.  There's a lot in Therapist I find very useful.

Hey Q, since you asked, I'd figure I'd offer my opinion on this.

It blows in comparison, it's light years awesome compared to the standard interface. 

However, why is it so poor comparitively?  I hate hearing something isn't up to par without knowing why.  It's the limitations of the system it's built in. 

1) It's difficult to scroll from left to right.
2) It's difficult to set multiple people to the same job.  A reliance I have on DT is that my 'peon' class can all be set on/off for a particular job at a time.  Be that picking plants or masonry during a massive wall build, that's a handy item.  In Manipulator, I can't even sort them that way, unless I set all the professions first, which is a lot easier on a new migration via DT.
3) While eventually I'm sure that bunch of caps and lowercase at the top of the screen may mean something to me, it's as user friendly as a toothpick in the earlobe.  It tries, but is not effective.  You have to rely on the lower region for each column.
4) I can't easily clear a dwarf's labors to make sure my legendary (whatever) goes and does THAT job, and only that.
5) Custom builds (back to peons) don't exist.  The majority of my inbound migrants get set to a template until I decide I need them for something else.  They default to all hauling, plant picking, Burial, Feeding Patients, Pumping, and Wound Recovery... with everything else OFF.  There's no way to perform that in Manipulator.
6) I can't easily swap over to Military statistics and set a profession for them on arrival to give them professions that remind me to put them in the military when I go to the squad screens.
7) The controls at the bottom suffer from loss of characters in TrueType (+/- for me).

Pros:
1) For the love of god, thank you, I can see their damned abilities in a reasonable way.
2) I can adjust everything within reason and see (as long as I don't have a few dozen) who's doing what.
3) Considering the interface, it's pretty damned good.
3a) That's equivalent to saying "Considering it's a guy, that's not a bad hole" to me.  If it's your thing, cool, but that's not my thing.  DOS is dead, ask my 8088.
4) The letter system for master/legendary is kinda neat.  Hadn't thought of that but it's pretty obvious on review.
5) At a glance Happiness.  Rock on.

I don't know if you originated Manipulator, Q, or just know the folks that did, but a few quick improvements would make UI on it a bit easier.

1) CTRL-<arrow> Pageup/down/left/right.  Significantly speed usage.
2) SHIFT-<arrow> Stripe a list/section for on/off.

Explanation: Why change Shift controls (which moves 10, like the rest of the interface like digging) to ctrl?  So it matches *windows*.  MS set the standard.  It's expected.  SHFT groups things, CTRL is individual select or long range movement.  Yes, LINUX, I know; Windows doesn't rule the world.  It just rules the average idiot's user experience.  I'm an average idiot.  Shift is not what I expect to use for that task.

3) Put in a filter to remove children.
4) What the hell is button 2?
4a) What is a group to button 2?

So, yeah, there's value in manipulator.  Unfortunately, the majority of it is because DT is failing me and it's faster to use that then scroll through an extra 100 or so zombied dwarves due to an unexpected feature (bug from my perception).  It still, unfortunately, fails for the same reason the military screens do.  It doesn't accept that the User Experience has advanced past Wildcatter, but it tries.  Note: I loved Wildcatter.  In 1985.

[RANT:]
The entire problem with Manipulator is it tries to offload some of the pain of a design decision that's inherent to the design of the system overall.  Before anyone gets on my case for this I'm well aware that the Tarns are trying to get the system built before worrying about conforming to 'current' expectations for interface.  The engine can be upgraded to whatever coding practices are there later and the UI can be brought up to snuff when you're not trying to apply wrapping paper to a morphing object.

Yes, I know in the long run that it will shorten development time.  I may be dead before they get there from old age (not an exaggeration), but I get it.

However, it brings back my biggest sticking point with DF in general.  Yeah, hah hah, we all laugh at the whole learning cliff diagram with people falling off because they just can't get it.  DF is between easy and moderate in difficulty if you've played sims/strat games.  DF interface and expectations that you learn most of this shit by headbanging your desk and eating a wiki for a few months is what makes it extreme.

I just get incredibly frustrated sometimes when I'm forced to fight the interface to play a game that I enjoy so damned much. 

I abandoned Sacred II simply because they couldn't get blowgun calculations accurate past a certain rounding point.  I won't even discuss Two Worlds at this point.  Sim City had their last good iteration in 2000.  Squeenix can just start over after what they did in FFXIV, I probably will never buy another one of their games.  EA... nevermind.  What they did to Blizzard makes me cry.

I'm still here and not going anywhere, I like Toady's vision that much.  Before we get into a religious war of some kind take this rant for what it is, letting some steam out of my ears.  I love that the DF community built DFHack and Manipulator and DT and Stonesense and Search and Workflow and... and... and... and...

I just get frustrated, sometimes, that this game isn't what I see it will eventually be in my head.  This massive, easy to use, difficult to win, TDTOE (The Developers Think Of Everything) ...

... alright, rant too long.  I grok the weekly post trying to figure out ways to try to help/financially encourage/offload development though.  I don't agree because they haven't done their homework, but I grok it.
[/RANT]