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fire emblem: waifu roulette

2 (16.7%)

fire emblem: fates except with even more weird gimmicks

5 (41.7%)

fire emblem: who even knows

5 (41.7%)

Total Members Voted: 12

[Sirus]

JoshuaFH, I'm a bit confused as to why you're working yourself up so much over things that are completely optional and don't affect your personal gameplay in any way unless you choose to make use of them. So what if someone gives their Awakening characters those legendary weapons? So what if people grind to a silly degree? That's their choice, and if that's how they choose to have fun then more power to them.

I have a buddy whose first action upon getting a new game is to look up cheats and hacks for it. I don't agree with that sort of thing, so you know what I do? I let him go ahead and break his games. He paid for them, he can do whatever he wants as long as he has fun with it. There's nothing wrong with live-and-let-live.

[Tawa]

Still, if any of you folks are going through Conquest right now and plan on playing Birthright? Play Hard mode. Normal is faaaar too easy.

Adding to this, speaking as the kind of guy who played the older games on Normal: Conquest Hard is somewhat BS, in my opinion. I don't know if I've just had really bad luck with the RNG or what, but I found it literally impossible to finish Chapter 10 and had to tone it down to normal, and everything leading up to that had this nasty veneer of requiring near-perfect play to stand a chance. Seeing as I think they took True Hit out, the dicey RNG doesn't always help matters, either; sure, Arthur manages to get crits on 14% chances now, but the generally lower accuracy rates tend to lead to an unbelievably irritating number of misses on your side (most notably on the formerly practically-guaranteed 80s and 90s range) and a suspiciously large number of unlikely hits for the enemy.

I'm pretty sure I heard Casual was added before awakening, but in a japan-only game. Does that actually count?

It was New Mystery of the Emblem, a remake of the 3rd game's Book II. That one also introduced the avatar mechanic. It wasn't released overseas due to Shadow Dragon bombing so badly, and I'm not 100% sure but I think not releasing it overseas threw a lot of their revenue out, which led to the possibility of Awakening being the last game.

I don't think they thought their strategy out very well there.

[JoshuaFH]

JoshuaFH, I'm a bit confused as to why you're working yourself up so much over things that are completely optional and don't affect your personal gameplay in any way unless you choose to make use of them. So what if someone gives their Awakening characters those legendary weapons? So what if people grind to a silly degree? That's their choice, and if that's how they choose to have fun then more power to them.

I have a buddy whose first action upon getting a new game is to look up cheats and hacks for it. I don't agree with that sort of thing, so you know what I do? I let him go ahead and break his games. He paid for them, he can do whatever he wants as long as he has fun with it. There's nothing wrong with live-and-let-live.

Well, it's not about how other people enjoy it, because honestly that doesn't effect me at all. What it boils down to is an idea I've been ruminating on for a long time now: the idea that every game, regardless of genre, is a puzzle game. The definition of puzzle being that there's some problem where you have a definite goal that you'd like to reach, but the path to that goal is not immediately obvious, you have to think about it. The only factors that change is the complexity of the puzzle and the time you have to complete it. A JRPG? A puzzle game, just with the puzzle being the game world and your character building. An RTS? It's a puzzle, just with your AI or Human opponent being the puzzle to overcome. A Call of Duty-style FPS? That's a puzzle game, just with each 'puzzle' being the moment to moment instances of decision making that leads to your victory.

With that in mind, anything that clearly makes the 'core' of the puzzle more worthwhile to solve is innately good, while anything that trivializes it is innately harmful. To use another example: there's alot of games that have segments that if you fail at it, the game just gives you the option to skip it, which I massively resent, cause the game itself is admitting that it is not worth playing. If the game is willing to undermine itself and it's own core engagement, why should *I* feel the game is worth playing?

I'm thinking I'm just severely jaded from being a gamer since a young age, and I tolerated a lot of bullshit growing up, and I look back on it and I wonder why the hell I was spending my time on shitty games so often, and nowadays if I even catch one whiff of it, I'm turned off. It's just the kind of laziness in design that I feel nobody should tolerate, it's condescending to players that are honestly capable of more and better.

[Culise]

It's fair to for you yourself to be sensitive to it due to your past poor experiences.  It seems odd to condemn others for playing the game in a different manner than you, however, or to condemn the game for offering settings to permit people to play in alternate ways.  Not all players play games as puzzles, after all; for some hypothetical Fire Emblem game (to avoid debates on the merits or lack therein of Fate's story in particular), let's say as an example, story may well be a strong draw.  To this person, a puzzle is not something that is inherently worthwhile, any more than setting up a whole bunch of soup cans in a particular order might be considered inherently entertaining to someone whose sole goal is to pass through a door that this act unlocks (for some reason); someone who values the end result more than the puzzle would likely prefer the door to be unlocked in the first place (by analogy, Phoenix Mode), or at the least that it use a more conventional key (by analogy, Casual Mode).  Forgive me if it seems trite, but it seems to introduce a small gap in your analysis that all games are puzzles played for the sake of the puzzle to neglect in it that not all people are you.

[Tawa]

-everything is a puzzle-

Spoiler: So, you finally reveal your true identity, Joshua. (click to show/hide)

I always knew Layton had a soft spot for Fire Emblem.

More seriously:

To use another example: there's alot of games that have segments that if you fail at it, the game just gives you the option to skip it, which I massively resent, cause the game itself is admitting that it is not worth playing. If the game is willing to undermine itself and it's own core engagement, why should *I* feel the game is worth playing?

The implicit idea that something skippable is not worth playing is... misguided.

Counterexample.

You can decline the special double-gaiden chapter in FE7. Does that make it not worth playing?

[JoshuaFH]

-everything is a puzzle-

Spoiler: So, you finally reveal your true identity, Joshua. (click to show/hide)

I always knew Layton had a soft spot for Fire Emblem.

More seriously:

To use another example: there's alot of games that have segments that if you fail at it, the game just gives you the option to skip it, which I massively resent, cause the game itself is admitting that it is not worth playing. If the game is willing to undermine itself and it's own core engagement, why should *I* feel the game is worth playing?

The implicit idea that something skippable is not worth playing is... misguided.

Counterexample.

You can decline the special double-gaiden chapter in FE7. Does that make it not worth playing?

It's not about skippable scenes, it's about encouraging the idea of avoiding failure that is...

Let me just put what I mean in another way: The idea that failure or difficulty is bad is simply an unhealthy mindset to have, so anything that fosters the idea that avoiding failure or difficulty is irresponsible at the very least. When you teach a child that failing at something is bad, you're implying that THEY'RE bad or stupid for failing, and so they become more afraid and frustrated with failure. The problem with that is that failing at things is truly the only way to stretch out what your limitations are, so when a game implies that just avoiding challenge and avoiding failure is acceptable, you're subtly sabotaging their mindset and preventing them from growing.

So the laziness in design I was referring to earlier, it's that when there's a section in your game that's obviously challenging, and your playtesters are not succeeding, instead of redesigning it and making that failure more fun and something to learn from, they admit that failing is bad and pander to that unhealthy mindset. That's basically what I'm getting at.

[Sirus]

ARGH

I was so close to beating Chapter 11 and then a teamed-up enemy attacked one of my squishies that had moved forward to score an easy kill. I had calculated that she could survive an attack from the active enemy, but I had forgotten to check the other enemy. That one had more than sufficient attack power to kill her, meaning that I now get to start this long slog of a chapter all over again.

Dammit Azura, what do I have to do? Have you sing a million times before ending each chapter?

[Cthulhu]

Is there any penalty or anything like that for just parking guys next to each other at the end of a sieze throne mission to farm support points?

[Sirus]

In Fates? I don't think they gain any support points just standing around next to each other. Maybe they do.

I know in older games, where support was gained through proximity, standing around next to each other was the way to do it.

[Cthulhu]

I"m still playing sacred stones.  I was just wondering if scumming it by standing around when the mission's over would have some kind of penalty.  Turn limits or something.

[Elephant Parade]

I"m still playing sacred stones.  I was just wondering if scumming it by standing around when the mission's over would have some kind of penalty.  Turn limits or something.

Unless you consider "feeling bad when the game gives you your turncount" a penalty, no.

[YaW]

As a european, I'm really sad the game's not out yet. We don't even have a launch date... 

[JoshuaFH]

ARGH

I was so close to beating Chapter 11 and then a teamed-up enemy attacked one of my squishies that had moved forward to score an easy kill. I had calculated that she could survive an attack from the active enemy, but I had forgotten to check the other enemy. That one had more than sufficient attack power to kill her, meaning that I now get to start this long slog of a chapter all over again.

Dammit Azura, what do I have to do? Have you sing a million times before ending each chapter?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, there's your problem, letting Azura being attacked at all in a big no-no. While I usually have her supporting very close to the front lines, she'll always stay just out of the Purple Zone, usually to use her sings on Elise or Jakob so they can get an extra heal in.

I thought Chapter 11 was alright, but for me it was extremely slow and methodical progressing from room to room. I actually burned through 5 or so retries, cause I kept getting guys killed early on because I was fumbling and stumbling over how stairs work. Damn you stairs, my only weakness!

My advice for Chapter 11: I'd personally just focus on the right path, because the left path has ninjas that all know lunge, and lunge is just the most bullshit move in the game. I mean, I DID manage to kill all those ninjas, but only with the help of Effie and her crazy good defense, so she was getting juggled around all willy-nilly around that room, but even then I think I got really lucky she didn't die.

But anyway, going up the right path is considerable easier, not only because there's easier enemies that the protag and Jakob/Felicia can beast on, there's also a miniboss guy who will use up all his staff uses and then proceed to do exactly nothing. Don't even need to kill him. Just be ULTRA SUPER CAREFUL of the guy in the penultimate room with the 'Life or Death' skill, which doubles the damage he both deals and receives.

[Sirus]

ARGH

I was so close to beating Chapter 11 and then a teamed-up enemy attacked one of my squishies that had moved forward to score an easy kill. I had calculated that she could survive an attack from the active enemy, but I had forgotten to check the other enemy. That one had more than sufficient attack power to kill her, meaning that I now get to start this long slog of a chapter all over again.

Dammit Azura, what do I have to do? Have you sing a million times before ending each chapter?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, there's your problem, letting Azura being attacked at all in a big no-no. While I usually have her supporting very close to the front lines, she'll always stay just out of the Purple Zone, usually to use her sings on Elise or Jakob so they can get an extra heal in.

I thought Chapter 11 was alright, but for me it was extremely slow and methodical progressing from room to room. I actually burned through 5 or so retries, cause I kept getting guys killed early on because I was fumbling and stumbling over how stairs work. Damn you stairs, my only weakness!

My advice for Chapter 11: I'd personally just focus on the right path, because the left path has ninjas that all know lunge, and lunge is just the most bullshit move in the game. I mean, I DID manage to kill all those ninjas, but only with the help of Effie and her crazy good defense, so she was getting juggled around all willy-nilly around that room, but even then I think I got really lucky she didn't die.

But anyway, going up the right path is considerable easier, not only because there's easier enemies that the protag and Jakob/Felicia can beast on, there's also a miniboss guy who will use up all his staff uses and then proceed to do exactly nothing. Don't even need to kill him. Just be ULTRA SUPER CAREFUL of the guy in the penultimate room with the 'Life or Death' skill, which doubles the damage he both deals and receives.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was still a slog, but I fought my way through both paths. I just gave Beruka a hand axe, paired her with Camilla, and tossed her into the ninja room. They only lasted a couple of turns while barely doing more than scratch damage

Beruka was the star of the map, really. Taking out all the ninja gave her a C-rank in axes, allowing her to use this club I acquired from somewhere that reverses the weapon triangle and exaggerates the effects. The myrmidons in the penultimate room didn't stand a chance.

By the way, I discovered that the Hoshidan princess (whose name I can't remember at the moment) has quite a lot of special dialog. Battles against Azura (don't worry, she survived this time), Camilla, and Corrin all produced unique pre-battle conversations. Maybe Ellie would have as well, but she got hit with that hex staff and did not have the HP to survive even a single round against the boss.

Now it's time for Chapter 12. This looks...fun.

[JoshuaFH]

ARGH

I was so close to beating Chapter 11 and then a teamed-up enemy attacked one of my squishies that had moved forward to score an easy kill. I had calculated that she could survive an attack from the active enemy, but I had forgotten to check the other enemy. That one had more than sufficient attack power to kill her, meaning that I now get to start this long slog of a chapter all over again.

Dammit Azura, what do I have to do? Have you sing a million times before ending each chapter?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, there's your problem, letting Azura being attacked at all in a big no-no. While I usually have her supporting very close to the front lines, she'll always stay just out of the Purple Zone, usually to use her sings on Elise or Jakob so they can get an extra heal in.

I thought Chapter 11 was alright, but for me it was extremely slow and methodical progressing from room to room. I actually burned through 5 or so retries, cause I kept getting guys killed early on because I was fumbling and stumbling over how stairs work. Damn you stairs, my only weakness!

My advice for Chapter 11: I'd personally just focus on the right path, because the left path has ninjas that all know lunge, and lunge is just the most bullshit move in the game. I mean, I DID manage to kill all those ninjas, but only with the help of Effie and her crazy good defense, so she was getting juggled around all willy-nilly around that room, but even then I think I got really lucky she didn't die.

But anyway, going up the right path is considerable easier, not only because there's easier enemies that the protag and Jakob/Felicia can beast on, there's also a miniboss guy who will use up all his staff uses and then proceed to do exactly nothing. Don't even need to kill him. Just be ULTRA SUPER CAREFUL of the guy in the penultimate room with the 'Life or Death' skill, which doubles the damage he both deals and receives.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was still a slog, but I fought my way through both paths. I just gave Beruka a hand axe, paired her with Camilla, and tossed her into the ninja room. They only lasted a couple of turns while barely doing more than scratch damage

Beruka was the star of the map, really. Taking out all the ninja gave her a C-rank in axes, allowing her to use this club I acquired from somewhere that reverses the weapon triangle and exaggerates the effects. The myrmidons in the penultimate room didn't stand a chance.

By the way, I discovered that the Hoshidan princess (whose name I can't remember at the moment) has quite a lot of special dialog. Battles against Azura (don't worry, she survived this time), Camilla, and Corrin all produced unique pre-battle conversations. Maybe Ellie would have as well, but she got hit with that hex staff and did not have the HP to survive even a single round against the boss.

Now it's time for Chapter 12. This looks...fun.

Good luck with Ch.12 Sirus

I tried out the prisoner system, and managed to persuade a Pegasus Knight named Mikasa (I honestly wasn't expecting a random name on them) onto my team, and because I love Pegasus Knights I decided to even give her a couple levels, and it looked promising at first, she learned a couple abilities and I thought she could 'possibly' be a useful member of the team... It looks, however, that generics have terrible stat growth, as well as obviously no Social Links. So sorry Mikasa, looks like you're goin in the trash. I'm honestly disappointed, I wanted a blank generic I could fully ascribe a made-up personality and history to.