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[cerapa]

I'd think its a much more peaceful (im talking about inner peace), simpler life, more natural, compared to modern times; even if you had a much higher chance of dying earlier.

I'd rather not starve on a harsh winter, lose half my children to diseases and get whipped for not giving enough of my grain to the local lord or just because he feels like it.

I prefer modern times myself. But I guess everyone values different things.

[Catsup]

I'd rather not starve on a harsh winter, lose half my children to diseases and get whipped for not giving enough of my grain to the local lord or just because he feels like it.

I prefer modern times myself. But I guess everyone values different things.

lol dude you need to dream more, dream about how wonderful another life is, throw reality out the window when youre dreaming. You only need to be a realist in actual modern day reality.

[Virex]

As LordBucket has been saying, there's not necessarily a first move, and someone making a first move is probably a minority of successful relationships.

There is a point at which the guy (usually) has to do something which puts him at risk of rejection though. Do you really think a guy who's too scared of rejection to make such a move could be considered a good partner or even person?

[Catsup]

There is a point at which the guy (usually) has to do something which puts him at risk of rejection though. Do you really think a guy who's too scared of rejection to make such a move could be considered a good partner or even person?

it would depend on their other qualities. What a person is attracted to isnt necessarily good, sometimes its toxic and even harmful. And just because a person is insecure doesnt mean they are a bad person.

the happiest guys on earth are psychopaths, they are completely in control of their emotions and never feel emotional pain. They know how to control what others, they know how to get what they want. They know how to make every girl crazy and want them. But are they good ppl? no they are not

[LordSlowpoke]

As LordBucket has been saying, there's not necessarily a first move, and someone making a first move is probably a minority of successful relationships.

There is a point at which the guy (usually) has to do something which puts him at risk of rejection though. Do you really think a guy who's too scared of rejection to make such a move could be considered a good partner or even person?

define good

that's a giant assumption you're throwing up in there, that last part. i'd like you to explain to me why insecurity instantly deprives a person of the right to call oneself good for this interests me

[Biowraith]

My mind's kinda reeling from the idea that the single trait of insecurity could be considered enough on its own to disqualify a person from the status of a good partner, much less a good person.  I mean I can understand if it's a dealbreaker for a specific person when narrowing down their pool of potential partners/friends/whatever (though I'm not sure I'd get along with that person), but to suggest it'd be a universal truth for the entirety of humankind just boggles my mind.

[Lectorog]

A lot of times it's a mutual thing. You don't need the "courage" or anything of the sort to "make a move", you'll both feel ready to do something so it'll happen. In fact, that often works better than he who doesn't fear rejection and simply goes for what he wants, because the other person may not be ready yet. A fear of rejection helps keep things respectable. Even with a crazy high fear of rejection, things will just happen slower, rather than not at all.

[LordBucket]

There is a point at which the guy (usually) has to do something which puts him at risk of rejection though.

My sample group does not support that conclusion.

[Catsup]

My sample group does not support that conclusion.

i would like to know more about your sample group. Did all of the participants communicate with just intuition alone? or was it that the girls only did all the talking? From what im understanding, youre saying that all the guys who were proactive were never rejected, which i find somewhat hard to believe. Your sample group didnt happen to contain only ppl who were experienced with this kinda thing, did it?

In fact, that often works better than he who doesn't fear rejection and simply goes for what he wants, because the other person may not be ready yet. A fear of rejection helps keep things respectable.

so why not just say "okay im fine with that" if they say theyre uncomfortable?

things will just happen slower, rather than not at all.

so if they reject you, its completely over? both ppl suddenly hate each other and cant talk to each other anymore?

[LordBucket]

Did all of the participants communicate with just intuition alone?

or was it that the girls only did all the talking? From what im understanding,

youre saying that all the guys who were proactive were never rejected

I'm sure there's a formal logical fallacy in there somewhere. Virex made a claim saying usually. I said my evidence does not support the claim of usually. You appear to now be interpreting "usually" to mean exclusively.

That is not correct.

To clarify my statement, looking at the set of my own romantic relationships, on the balance, they were not characterized by the situation of "I didn't know whether the girl would be receptive to my advances, then 'put myself at risk of rejection' by making an advance not knowing how it would be received."

I have done that...I have been in that situation...but very few relationships have resulted from that scenario. Most of my relationships, and most relationships of others I've happened to observe have resulted from situations where the girl first made it clear that she was interested, and then the guy acted.

If a girl says "hey, you're hot and I would totally date you" and the guy replies "Cool. Do you like sushi? I know a great place. How does Saturday sound?" I wouldn't describe that as the guy doing something that puts him at risk of rejection. The girl has clearly communicated that she's receptive.  Whereas if a guy and a girl are strangers but happen to do something that puts them in close proximity...say, they're both attending the same college course but they're not yet acquaintances, then the guy approaches and says "Hi, my name's Bob. I've seen you around. How'd you like to get coffee sometime?" I would consider it a case where the guy "put himself at risk of rejection."

My experience is that very few relationships result from situations resembling the second case. More relationships result from situations resembling the first case, or from cases like I described in a previous post where it's more of a mutual/simultaneous thing.

[XXSockXX]

My sample group does not support that conclusion.

i would like to know more about your sample group. Did all of the participants communicate with just intuition alone? or was it that the girls only did all the talking? From what im understanding, youre saying that all the guys who were proactive were never rejected, which i find somewhat hard to believe. Your sample group didnt happen to contain only ppl who were experienced with this kinda thing, did it?

You might have a point with the experience thing. I totally agree with Lord Bucket that most relationships happen organically, that has been the case for me too. I would even say it's probably a bad sign if you feel like you have to make an effort to make something work.
However for inexperienced people this seems all more complicated so they tend to misinterpret signals and misunderstand each other. At least you need some ability to read people, which comes from and gets better with experience. There definitely are girls who will tell you "hey, you're hot and I would totally date you", but often it's quite a bit more subtle than that. Then there are a lot of guys who mistake random niceness for an obvious signal, and those will usually get rejected.

[Catsup]

I'm sure there's a formal logical fallacy in there somewhere. Virex made a claim saying usually. I said my evidence does not support the claim of usually. You appear to now be interpreting "usually" to mean exclusively.

yea gotcha, i dont usually read teh fine print.

"Hi, my name's Bob. I've seen you around. How'd you like to get coffee sometime?"

that is someone asking for a date? my god im naive, i thought it was just some random coffee thing that had to do with drinknig coffee.


so from what you guys are saying, the rejected thing is guys asking "random strangers" for a date? theres a couple of things wrong here. I dont feel its normal to ask a random stranger like that, this is just what i always felt. And 2, why would any guy feel scared of being rejected by a random stranger they'll never see again and dont really know? i mean i know its scary if you ask your best friend out, and it will get awkward between you 2 for a lil bit if something doesnt go well, but strangers? why care?
and 3, this is just me, but i would actually avoid ppl who would accept to go out on a date if asked by some random person, looseness has its limits...

[XXSockXX]

Not "random" strangers. But that nice cashier who smiles at you every day might just be polite. Or - dear god - waitresses, there seem to be an awful lot of people who fall for that waitress in the place they always go to. Basically people you think you know a bit, when you really don't.

[Catsup]

Not "random" strangers. But that nice cashier who smiles at you every day might just be polite. Or - dear god - waitresses, there seem to be an awful lot of people who fall for that waitress in the place they always go to. Basically people you think you know a bit, when you really don't.

fall? how do ppl fall in love with someone they dont know...? but yea, asking is a bad tactic in those situations, i'd think a better idea is just smiling back, since that can be taken either way.

[nenjin]

Generally all the women that have ever been interested in me, they've approached me, not the other way around.