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[Cedwyn]

No offense intended for Toady One or players who enjoy 'other' content.

I am wondering if anyone plays the 'other' Dwarf Fortress modes and if Toady One invests time in each mode equally or favours one over the other.  I may be totally wrong here, but it seems the vast majority of people enjoy the simcity mode for Dwarf Fortress versus the exploring/dungeon crawler modes.  This got me wondering if TO is perhaps spending (wasting) time on modes that few players play or are interested in playing.  Thoughts?

Also, while I do enjoy seeing new features added... I am saddened that few (if any) improvements to the interface are made.  I completely understand that massive nature of a project to redesign the ui, perhaps people would even argue that the ui is nostalgic, however I feel it needs more attention before adding more features to the game.

Examples of basic ui redesign:
-Some screens use -= to navigate while others use arrow keys.  Make all vertical navigation done by -=.  Simple change that keeps a consistent format.
-Adding more mouse functionality.  Digging, allow click+drag with graphical representation of the line/rectangle/oval.  Use trace/ray to determine which tiles intersect the line.  Consider other mouse functions for digging such as point1->point2 for designating rectangles, or for zoning/bedrooms/whatever allow the user to click a point and use the mouse scroll to adjust the size of the zone (aka instead of using -=).  Mouse scroll altogether would be a big improvement everywhere: ie. use scroll to move up and down layers; to scroll screens.  Add mouse3+ button support: ie. mouse3 = enter, mouse4 = "q", mouse5 = "k".
-Custom keys, quicksave/load, resolution change separate from font size change - simple yet efficient.
-Ability to ragequit without DF trying to save when exiting the game.  ("You are about to exit the game - do you wish to save first?  (Y/N)")

I'm sure this has all been discussed before... but I feel it would be in the best interests of the players by setting basic ui redesign as a top priority.

[Dyret]

Hehe, I like how you refer to adventure mode as the 'other' content like it's some sort of secret baby-rapist guild we don't talk about in polite company or something.

Seriously though, there plenty of people who prefer either mode, or even legends for that matter, and there are those who spend hours in all three... I don't believe there is any particular general bias against adventure mode. Maybe a few releases back when it was entirely gutted and broken, but not now. As for the UI it's been done to death, It's not even worth bringing up.

[Manveru Taurënér]

One of the biggest reason more people play Fort mode over Adventure mode is simply the fact that very little time has gone into it compared to the other previously. This next release will pretty much be the first time when Adventure mode has a solid finished base to stand on, and I for one look forward to trying it out. And if you think that's wasted development time then you're vastly uninformed to pretty much the whole purpose and goal of the finished game.

Basically, the end goal is to not have different game modes as much as a world where you can fluidly swap between different playstyles and perspectives, all the way from controlling a lone adventurer up to ruling a civilization, waging wars, trade etc (sometimes referred to around here as kingdom mode).

Another fact you might've missed (or not) is that the estimated development time is another 20 years at the very least. As such, making basic UI redesign a "top priority" would be downright silly, since most of the basic game features aren't even implemented yet. Toady does small improvements to the UI pretty much after every release so it's not like he's ignoring it. And while it is clunky and inconsistent it's still functional when you get used to it, which cannot really be said for much of the game features

Another thing, you note that you want a quicksave/load option as well as being able to exit when things go bad without suffering permanent consequences. This isn't really in sync with what the game is about. Failure is supposed to have consequences, however those consequences are pretty much always supposed to be solveable in some way. Lose a fort to a megabeast or invasion? Then send a reclaim party, drive out the menace and rebuild. You used to be able to send in a small army of 40ish armed dwarves for reclaiming lost forts which is coming back at some point. More importantly having failure mixed with the successes makes for a better story, which is a key point of the game.

[Putnam]

It's not actually -= but -+, like on your numpad on the right.

[iceball3]

It's not actually -= but -+, like on your numpad on the right.

Aren't literally all the controls for every single UI element mapped in the settings?

[werty892]

I am wondering if anyone plays the 'other' Dwarf Fortress modes and if Toady One invests time in each mode equally or favours one over the other.  I may be totally wrong here, but it seems the vast majority of people enjoy the simcity mode for Dwarf Fortress versus the exploring/dungeon crawler modes.  This got me wondering if TO is perhaps spending (wasting) time on modes that few players play or are interested in playing.  Thoughts?

It's not wasted time. Considering that the aimed for release date is 30 years+ away... I think he can take his time on whatever he wants. Also, there would not be a adventure mode board, if nobody played it.

UI stuff we have all seen 1000000000000000000000000000000 times before.

Get in line.

[Manveru Taurënér]

DISCLAIMER: This is obviously all my own opinion, and you are of course entitled to a differing one, but seeing as mine is more in league with what The Great Toad has expressed I reserve the right to consider mine superior ^^

Also, don't say that. It makes you look like a massive asshole.

Myeah, I pondered before posting whether it might come off that way, should probably have used some other type of emoticon/smiley to make it more clear it was meant in jest. I do believe however that the only opinion that really matters is the creators.

Edit: Actually, just gonna remove it, it doesn't really serve any purpose and might make people get the wrong impression :>

[Broken]

Is very important to consider that this release will start to fuse adventure mode with fort mode. Now than fortresses can be retired, you can make a fortress, retire, start an adventurer, retire (maybe in the fortress itself) continue with the old fortress or an old one, etc.

The true goal is create an alive world, that evolves with time. Of course, we are still far from that, but eventually we should be able to play a world for centuries, with civilizations rising and falling, and adventurers becoming legends of old with their exploits engraved in the ruins of forgotten fortresse fot the heroes of future to explore.

Thats what i want, at least.

[werty892]

I do believe however that the only opinion that really matters is the creators.

I believe that too. Its just the "My opinion is superior part" which was annoying. But thanks for removing that, I'll take it out of my post too.

[Manveru Taurënér]

Another thing not to forget is that a lot more than it looks of what goes into adventure mode will make it into fortress mode down the line as well. Jumping/climbing critters sure will be fun to see and better sneaking might have some effects down the line, although I'm unsure if it'd be possible to make a kobold smart enough to actually manage to steal stuff from deep inside a fort. Then there's the non-lethal combat that will surely help with making the justice system better down the line. All the stuff with armies/refugees and hill/deep dwarves are obviously laying the ground for future fortress features. Same thing with bandits, which I'm unsure whether they'll show up in fort mode this release, but surely will at some point.

I guess one could argue that much of this could've been implemented in fortress mode first without all the background stuff in place, but again that's not really the point of the game. It's also what makes the difference between say, having generic bandits attack and plunder your early fortress or caravans coming to trade, as opposed to having a fortress inhabitant with an immoral personality start stealing, then being punished for it and as a result develop a grudge and leave the fort only to join up with a nearby bandit crew and much later on coming back to wreak havoc.

All in all though, with this release we're in a MUCH better place to start getting some really juicy additions to fortress mode in the coming releases ^^

[Cedwyn]

If ui enhancements are not a top priority, another avenue is making the game more mod friendly so that other players can create this sort of content.  Imagine if Dwarf Therapist could be integrated directly into DF (no need for a separate app) with the use of mod-supported api.  I imagine TO wants to keep the source code (his hard work / intellectual property) private, which is fine, but an api would allow developers to change the functionality of DF ui (among other areas) while keeping the game engine unchanged.

Perfect example is Minecraft.  Until Mojang released a proper mod api, the game was difficult to mod (multiple mods always have conflicts) and required modifying game files directly.  After the mod api was released, amazing mods that pushed the boundaries of the game beyond that of which the developers had intended or imagined - were possible.  Minecraft continued to be officially developed, adding new content every few months, and people enjoy both vanilla and mods alike.

Of course a mod api would take a long time to develop, creating the engine, the functions, variables, and so forth, but it would go a long way into supporting already positively proven mods like Dwarf Therapist while allowing new mods to grow such as enhancing mouse support or ui changes.

[Putnam]

Minecraft's modding API still hasn't come out...

[Iceblaster]

Minecraft's modding API still hasn't come out...

Hate to bring off topic, but yeah, just look at Terra Firma craft or any of the other total conversion or major mod packs. Those are all done through modifying the game itself, sure the devs of those mods aren't having a laid back easy time, however the product is what makes it seem all the more impressive.

On a more on topic note, I have no primary concern on when the interface will be improved. I kinda get information overload when handed detailed things that don't have tool tips(not saying it's needed) so while it would be nice, it would get a bit over whelming with how complex DF would get in a couple decades if the next big update is to be taken into account.

[Tawa]

I, for one, back on topic, play almost solely adventure mode. The adventure mode forum is buzzing with activity, too. Adventure mode and Fortress Mode are both brilliant parts of the same game; with Adventure Mode, you can do things you can't in Fortress mode, like go on quests or freely explore, whereas in Fortress mode you can do things you can't in Adventure Mode like building things and controlling several things at a time. Removing one and leaving the other would be very bad for the game, because they are both brilliant parts of the same brilliant game.

Sorry if that seemed over-emotional and/or like an advertisement for Adventure Mode.

[Lightman]

Cedwyn:

There are two modes: Fortress and Adventure.

Adventure mode is certainly not a waste.

The two modes are linked in various ways, internally and the the DF community supports both.

I've had awesome experiences playing both modes.  Toady has actually commented that, on a personal level, he enjoys games in the vein of Adventure mode rather than Fortress mode.

While nobody likes the UI, it's just not important enough (yet).  The list of things with higher priority is never-ending.