I read the whole thread (not much since it's only fives pages +1 post long), and it felt weird that there have been suggestions for race and sub-race, even Jews; however, no one mentioned that Latino/Hispanic are two different ethnic groups composed from a variety of races from 100% White, to 100% Black, to 100% New World Indian; and everything in between. In fact, until recently, Latino (or the less common, but more correct name, Latin; from an English-language standpoint), was used, and could be used, to refer to any of those people whom speak, or are natives of places where Romance languages are spoken (yes, I find it weird too that Haitians are technically Latin, although, the genocide against the French could put them at non-Latin, since they only speak the language mixed with other African tongues).
Regardless, I would be against adding race to the game; nonetheless, if it were to be added, I would like to at least request that not all Hispanics be treated like minorities, some of us are White; a good example (not great or perfect), is the current Pope, he is in all ways Italian genetically, but "Hispanic" because of where he was born.
As for myself, I am of majority Spanish descent (most of it comes from Catalonia and Basque Country), partly Italian (Ligurian to be more specific), and with a sprinkle of French (great-grandfather of my grandmother is French, dunno if Occitian or actual French).
And no, the vast majority of Spaniards are not descended from the "Moors", actually, the Moors took from our genetic stocks, not raped our women.*
*It actually makes sense, it is against Muslim Law for a Christian man to marry a Muslim woman, but not visa-verse. Therefore, if a Christian-Muslim marriage did take place, the children would have identified as Muslim, and it would have been a Muslim man marrying a Christian woman. It is also against Muslim Law to convert to another religion, a capital offense in most Middle Eastern countries (albeit rarely practiced), and there were higher taxes for Spanish Christians (and Jews) in order to coerce them to convert. Then, the 800 year long or so Muslim rule of Spain does not include the entirely, the first years were the conquest (which, by Middle Age standards was as fast as wild-fire) which for Spain were only 8 years, but it took fifty years to keep the Muslims off France for god, following 200 years included varying degrees of control, by the year 900 (the conquest started in 7-11, pun intended and the year is correct), the Muslims only had control of SE Spain, so the country had been a battle-ground for two whole centuries. A decade later the actual rule started and almost the whole of Spain was brought back under Muslim control.
Civil war happened a hundred years later (about 1010), and thus the Muslim rule declined to about half of Spain (if you include Portugal as Spain under Muslim rule, if not then two-thirds of Spain**) by the end of the civil war, about two decades later. My ancestors (did I forget to mention that one of my great times who knows what grandfather was a Northern Scotsman (possibly 100% percent Pict) that took part in the Reconquest? Could be anything from a page to a squire to a knight, or just a plain craftsman) were raiding Muslim cities & villages at this time, and demanded tribute from them until we were strong enough to conquer the area. The following ~150 years experience more waning and waxing under Muslim rule, mostly Eastern Spain, these cat-and-mouse wars last until the early-middle part of the 12th century. By the year 1200, fifty years after a mixture of turmoil, about one-third of Spain is under Muslim rule, and only 10 percent of Portugal. Ever since the 11th century, Muslims have paid tribute to Spaniards, this lasts until the very-late 14th century, the end of Muslim rule. These continuous, non-stop battles last until about the year 1350, where "peace" is made with the Muslims for the approximately 150 years, also because the Black Plague happened and this weakened Spain, Portugal is already whole, complete to modern borders.
Afterwards, as you all know, the union of Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragon in about 1470 led to a new Crusade on the Muslims which lasted for about 20 years; Columbus gets his voyage, he travels three times, re-discovers the Americas (new to us, but not the Vikings, and definitely not new to Native Americans), dumb!@# calls it "India", ect. and the United States forms the state of Washington, many years later the LCS is born.
**When the Muslims attacked, Portugal was part of Spain if I stand correct, albeit it was never under the Roman Empire, it was under Visigothic rule.
Now remember, Jews are being expelled as well as Muslim, and while this is a religious battle; race does play a part, since this is where we get the term "blue-blood" and how Spain somehow has a 10 percent nobility when the rest of Europe has a 1-5 percent nobility population. Those with a lighter shade would show their arms (specifically the underside of their forearms) to others and proclaim that they were "blue-blooded", descendants of the pre-Muslim rulers of Spain; this helped otherwise unknown people be accepted into the nobility. Back again to the non-Moorish population of Spain, some Jews and Muslims (most likely rich ones, since we also took away the wealth of many Jews; in fact, Sephardi Jews were granted automatic Spanish citizenship a many months ago because of this) converted to Christianity while the great deal of them still practiced their religion. This falls under the Inquisition which I will not discuss right now.
Nevertheless, some might argue that a substantial part of Spain's population has DNA hapogroups exclusive, or at least harbored by the great majority of North African Berbers; to which I reply that this is an idiotic thing to say. Migration has occurred ever since pre-historic times over the Gibraltar straight, and has taken place before, during, and after the Roman Conquest & States of Hispaniola as well as Visigothic rule. I do not say that Spanish-Moorish unions never happened, since the law has been broken ever since it was invented, but they happened at a scale far lesser than the common person believes; especially when you consider that the children would have almost always been Muslim, and the vast majority of Moors have been expelled from Spain during the centuries long Reconquest. Meaning that the possibility of assimilation has to overcome two distinct, centuries apart challenge to finally appear as Moorish genetic influence on the common Spaniard. Of course, rapes have been common in the past (as they are today), but even if a Moorish scum (for I consider all rapist to be scum) raped a Christian woman, the baby would have been most likely killed when born (either because of the father or husband if both or one of them survived, or the mother's own free will), or greatly stigmatized; in addition to the already existing stigma of being a bastard. Remember, women did not have much of a choice in those days and even in the present rape-war babies are stigmatized. In the past they would have been lucky to even survive into adulthood (because of infanticide and the basic child mortality, not to mention that these children would have probably been treated worse than children of a couple (had the woman already had children), because they looked different (and as said before, because they are bastards), and then they would have to overcome the challenge of finding a partner. Remember this is the product of rape and has no fault for how it was conceived. In the end, the combination of these two religions made it near impossible for assimilation of Moors into Spanish stock, but it made it much easier for it to happened the other way around. Also keep in mind, many Christian converted to Muslim and continued to practice Christianity in secret; this was all economically (actually tax) motivated.
This has happened in the near-present as well, think of the mulatto Rhine-land Bastards of France, and the children of Nazi (most likely SS) men born to Scandinavian women, they experienced much rejection and stigma.
What I am trying to say is that Spaniards are in-deed White, and they have many still-White descendants in the New World. Look at Fidel Castro, commie-elite, his grandparents were all from Galicia; Ricky martin has a mostly Spanish ancestry (almost because he has some Corsican, if I am correct). Then there is myself.
More to read:
http://www.racialreality.110mb.com/spaniards.htmlKhaldun. The Muqaddimah
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<p class="rant">Sorry for the rant.</p>
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Topic: Suggestion: Implementing race in LCS (Read 13069 times)