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[Ghills]

Hey I would be tremendously grateful if someone suggested me a decent dungeon crawler game for PC, featuring complex character development system and party management, rewarding process of grinding (if possible) and challenging battles, great variety of the stuff and high replay value? Much like Wizardry 8 but not from the series, not a Might and Magic incarnation or either of the Legend of Grimrock games. Not necessarily set in a dungeon, and not necessarily featuring grid-based movement.

PS since a certain point in time, I'm aware of Grimoire, and I really can't wait for it finally released.

Icewind Dale sounds like a good fit. Lots of party management, tactical battles, grinding is rewarding, lots of loot, decent replay value.  Not grid-based or in a single dungeon but lots of dungeon-diving and the story keeps you interested.

When you say complex character development, do you mean complex story and choices, or complex builds and tactics?  Do you want more RPG or more dungeon crawler?

If you mean story/RPG, then Dragon Age Origins is good, but if you mean complex builds maybe not. On high difficulties it's pretty tactical and action-oriented, but the replay value comes mostly from the story changes and not the battles, and you don't have to worry about grinding areas very much.

I doubt I'm going to like any of Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, or Dragon Age (I haven't played these myself, but watched other people play), and honestly I never regarded Bioware games as much entertaining to me (except Neverwinter Nights, which is my favourite rpg, by the way).

What I meant when was speaking of character development was precisely about complexity and deepness of the rpg system of a game -- how varied, consistent and thought-out classes, races (with their talents and traits), stats, skills etc it offers, and how these elements exist individually and how they constitute the whole system, how they influence the gameplay etc. Frankly speaking, normally I never care about the plot or story too much (except cases when it's noticeably poor in quality or stunningly great), but I do care about roleplaying and highly appreciate when it's possible to solve certain quests more than in one way. Though I was asking exactly for a dungeon crawler, not a 'pure RPG'.

I can see where the confusion happened. What you're describing isn't character development. Roughly speaking, character = personality, character development = developing an NPC as a character. 

It sounds like you're looking for a very in-depth and well-thought-out class and build system with a lot of emphasis on stats.  I think you have to go to MMO PvP or eSports for that.  Single-player games are just not as focused on it, especially modern ones.

Out of curiosity, what puts you off from Dragon Age? Is it just the streamlined skills/talents system? I've found Origins to be pretty similar to Neverwinter Nights except genuinely better in almost every area. 

[PrimusRibbus]

Looking for some recommendations that meet the following criteria:
 
1.) Controller-based PC game with 2 player online co-op.
2.) Preferably something a bit more action-oriented and with some degree of progression. I'm open to suggestions from many genres, except please no hotbar-based MMORPGs like WoW or turn-based games.
3.) MOST IMPORTANTLY: It has to Just Work™. No hamachi, no struggling to setup controllers, no mods, no setting up dedicated servers, no fan patches or ini-modifying, no CTDs or general bugginess.
4.) Not the type of game that releases frequent patches that delay you from getting into the game if you haven't booted it up in a while. We play infrequently, and don't want to sit around watching a patch window.
5.) Doesn't have forced tutorials before you can jump into multiplayer.
6.) Doesn't require you to spend 30 minutes to find eachother in game, or otherwise build up to a point where you're allowed to interact meaningfully.

TLDR: Controller-based online co-op PC games that two guys can pick up once in a while after a long day at work and deal with absolutely no bullshit.

[Mephisto]

Two of my most recent:

Hero Siege
Victor Vran

Both have usable skills but there are four max so they're not really hotbar mania.

[Sanctume]

I miss 2 player Contra

[Gabeux]

This is a very long shot, but maybe I've managed to miss something.

I've been playing Wurm Unlimited highly modified, and I'm looking/waiting for a game that's similar to Wurm/Minecraft/Life is Feudal (co-op and sandbox) that have a big PvE component.
I really want to see a co-op game that has a dynamic world or simulation. Think Space Rangers, in which the game will play by itself if you don't move.
Is there anything like this, or is anything like this being made?

I looked high and low and the only one I found that gave me such vibes, is a very early one called Winterfall. But it's too early to say if it will truly be dynamic.

[puke]

TLDR: Controller-based online co-op PC games that two guys can pick up once in a while after a long day at work and deal with absolutely no bullshit.

Fucking HELLDIVERS, mate.

I hear it has some similarities to the Magika games, so might be worth looking at those as well. 

Just saw a stream of some guys playing Red Solstice, looked pretty hot, but more co-op real-time tactics than twin-stick shooter.  Have a look and decide for your self though, might be up your alley.

There are also a metric assload of 40K games out now, I'm pretty sure at least a couple of them are real time shooters.  Kill Team comes to mind, have not tried it myself.

I hear good things about Vermintide, I guess it is a Left-for-Dead-like, whatever that means?  First person class based buddy-shooter thing.  Have to stick together and leverage your class synergies to avoid being overwhelmed.  Some friends were trying to get me into it, but FPS isn't really my thing.

On a historical note, the Starwars Battlefront games were my absolute favorite crack-a-beer and play with a friend after work games.  I'm not sure how they have aged, and I hear the multiplayer servers are down.  We used to play split screen on the sofa, and some of them might have private server or local coop options?

Also, I think the SW:BF formula of fighting over bases that act as spawn points until one side controls the map -- I think that has basically been copied to fucking death, so I am sure you can find some other 2-player co-op games that do the same thing.

Another one (and this is a guilty pleasure of mine) is Shadowrun Boston Lockdown, which is co-op turn based tactical shooter.  it is a "bad" game by any measurable standard, but somehow it is way more fun than it has any right to be, and I wasted a lot of hours playing it with my buddies.  Really had a great time with it, despite it's numerous shortcomings.

I am currently enjoying Satellite Reign, which is a spiritual successor to the original Syndicate games.  Dont know how it plays with a controller, I use mouse and keyboard, but try asking on the steam forum?  Multiplayer can be a bit laggy, but it is still loads of fun.

TL;DR:

HELLDIVERS
Magicka?
Red Solstice
random 40K franchise crap
Starwars Battlefront
Shadowrun Boston Lockdown
Satellite Reign

[Mech#4]

Maybe "Orcs Must Die 2"? That has controller support from a brief read, though I can't remember if I used in game microphone or not. It's a fun tower defence type game where you have to slaughter waves of orcs using traps, mooks and various items. The better you do the more abilities and items you can unlock for your character.

[itisnotlogical]

I've played the Battlefront games recently.

The first one has aged pretty badly in terms of gameplay. It's rather simplistic, and playing against the computer is either laughably easy or brutally unfair depending on the map and which faction you've picked. If you want to experience utter bullshit, play as the Republic on Yavin 4. On the other hand, it has Bespin: Platforms, which is probably the most perfect multiplayer map I've ever seen.

The second one has aged better. There's more depth and variation to the gameplay, the maps are generally more equal, so on and so forth. There's also Tatooine Assault, which pits each faction's heroes against the other. The combat is much less vehicle-focused, with depowered vehicles and a much wider variety of infantry abilities.

However, as puke said, the PC multiplayer servers are probably down. Also, I doubt that they support controllers, and if they do I have a feeling that it sucks.

[puke]

Google tells me there is a new one in 2015, and they've got another one coming next year?  Looks like the 2015 one heavily featured Hoth, and the 2017 is supposed to be on the Death Star?

Anyone tried the 2015 one?

[RoguelikeRazuka]

I can see where the confusion happened. What you're describing isn't character development. Roughly speaking, character = personality, character development = developing an NPC as a character. 

It sounds like you're looking for a very in-depth and well-thought-out class and build system with a lot of emphasis on stats.  I think you have to go to MMO PvP or eSports for that.  Single-player games are just not as focused on it, especially modern ones.

Out of curiosity, what puts you off from Dragon Age? Is it just the streamlined skills/talents system? I've found Origins to be pretty similar to Neverwinter Nights except genuinely better in almost every area.

I meant a game character just to be the one whom you play as. They may have or may not have personality, like in old games from 80s which were devoid of proper narrative (Mario Bros. etc). Thus character development refers to the broad concept of a game character advancing in their skills, stats, abilities etc throughout the game (including their personality growth too, but it's not what interests me in this particular case, for I'm in want of a dungeon crawler game). This is how I see it.

As for Dragon Age, my discontent with it has to do mostly with ruined expectations, for I had already experienced Neverwinter Nights by the time Dragon Age was released, and although I loved NWN to the utmost, I would have been extremely happy to see significant improvements in Bioware RPGs compared to it, for example on the side of handling in-game world (I wanted the one of Dragon Age to be vast and open, but it proved to be more like in Icewind Dale, when you travel between places solely for the sake of questing, which was acceptable for the time when IWD came out). I also hoped for Dragon Age to feature a more complex role-playing system, not necessarily that of D&D of any version, and I was highly displeased with that oversimplified (or, as you aptly called it, streamlined in certain aspects) nonsense from Dragon Age. Finally, I found Dragon Age to be lacking content-wise, like when we got mere three playable species or races, being the stale humans, elves and dwarves (as if the creators were lazy or not able to come up with something less trivial and not so utterly distasteful for their own fantasy world).

[Persus13]

I second Victor Vran and Helldivers.

Google tells me there is a new one in 2015, and they've got another one coming next year?  Looks like the 2015 one heavily featured Hoth, and the 2017 is supposed to be on the Death Star?

Anyone tried the 2015 one?

The 2015 Battlefront is a reboot by EA. The beta was on Hoth, and when it came out there were a a couple different maps/gamemodes on Endor, Hoth, Tatooine, and Sullust, with more added later by DLC and a few free ones, including a Death Star DLC you saw.

I've enjoyed playing it on a friend's console, and it looks beautiful, but its not something I'd pay 60 bucks for the game plus extra for the DLCs. plus its not exactly coop, as its focus is team-based multiplayer and there's not any campaign or prequel-era factions like in the older ones.

I think they're planning on a sequel, my best guess is it'll coincide with Episode 8

[Shadowlord]

The 2015 Battlefront is shit compared to the first two. I'd point to steam reviews but it's not on Steam, so http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/star-wars-battlefront

3.5 (out of 10) user score.

Compare the first two: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/star-wars-battlefront-2004
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/star-wars-battlefront-ii (and it has 90% on Steam)

It's fascinating that the "critics" rated all three in the 70s.

Personally, the first game was one of my favorite FPSes of all time. I wasn't as keen on the second one because they added jedi and restricted what classes you could choose. I can guess why they restricted classes, because in the first game 90% of players played the class that had rocket launchers and mines (except when playing the faction that had both rocket soldiers and jetpack emp-rocket soldiers), but fighting those people was one of the reasons I loved the first game so much. One hit kill weapons which take a long, fixed amount of time to reload? Droppable mines which explode if you step on them? It just upped the skill challenge. When it was available - some factions lacked it - I played the class with the handheld mortar, which was also OHK on a direct hit, with splash damage, but also had an arc, and that class also had a repair tool and could drop ammo/health pickups. There was nothing more satisfying than gun kataing around guys who had OHK weapons (essentially dodging moments before their weapon reloaded and they fired, so that they had no time to react and adjust their aim).

I exclusively played the MP, of course. The SP wasn't really all that fun.

(P.S. I read that people have multiplayer for Battlefront 2 somewhere, but iirc the last time I tried to set that up, I couldn't connect still for some reason.)

[itisnotlogical]

For those who've played AdventureQuest: Is there a game like it for mobile?

AdventureQuest basically defined mobile games-the good and the bad-on the PC before smartphones even existed, so I'd be surprised if somebody hasn't created an AdventureQuest-like game for Android or iOS.

[Sanctume]

For those who've played AdventureQuest: Is there a game like it for mobile?

AdventureQuest basically defined mobile games-the good and the bad-on the PC before smartphones even existed, so I'd be surprised if somebody hasn't created an AdventureQuest-like game for Android or iOS.

I think the limiting factor for adventure games for mobile is the bloat size of good stories. 

PC games has nice maps and npcs with their dialogues. 

With the limited memory space for mobiles, most are procedurallly created dungeons with reusable icons to increase replay/variety while efficient in memory usage.

[Trebz]

I'm looking for a good detailed navy sim. Something that tracks damage and crew, with an rpg like progression. Preferably something free form instead of set battles. Much like Silent Hunter but with playable battleships. Atlantic Fleet is fantastic as well, but it has set battles and no crew details.