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[Micro102]

Hey I would be tremendously grateful if someone suggested me a decent dungeon crawler game for PC, featuring complex character development system and party management, rewarding process of grinding (if possible) and challenging battles, great variety of the stuff and high replay value? Much like Wizardry 8 but not from the series, not a Might and Magic incarnation or either of the Legend of Grimrock games. Not necessarily set in a dungeon, and not necessarily featuring grid-based movement.

PS since a certain point in time, I'm aware of Grimoire, and I really can't wait for it finally released.

Baldur's Gate?

[puke]

The questions is basically, games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Fire Emblem, Massive Chalice... something this?

I'd be interested in suggestions along those lines as well.

[Shadowlord]

I'm looking for examples but coming up short.  I feel like I keep reading news about indie games coming out where you play a shop or tavern keeper and recruit adventurers whom go out and mine the local dungeon, and you buy their trash loot and sell them tools.

Are those Recettear clones? Mind you, I haven't played Recettear.

Edit:

PS since a certain point in time, I'm aware of Grimoire, and I really can't wait for it finally released.

Isn't it already released?

[RoguelikeRazuka]

PS since a certain point in time, I'm aware of Grimoire, and I really can't wait for it finally released.

Isn't it already released?

It is not that Grimoire. The one I was speaking of is this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/grimoire-heralds-of-the-winged-exemplar#/

The game has been around 18 years in development now, and considering the creator is an extraordinary person and proved to be not a dependable one (to have said several times the game was nearly finished with a couple of issues to handle before it's suitable for market, and it's still not released), I doubt it's going to get the release date anytime soon.

[Flying Carcass]

The questions is basically, games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Fire Emblem, Massive Chalice... something this?

I'd be interested in suggestions along those lines as well.

Disgaea

[Parsely]

Are there any games where you knock people out and can hear them snoring/breathing?

[Nighthawk]

Are there any games where you knock people out and can hear them snoring/breathing?

Dishonored. Guards make snoring noises when knocked out, if I recall properly.

[Persus13]

I think that happens in Monaco.

[Scripten]

The Metal Gear Solid series has that.

[Ghills]

Hey I would be tremendously grateful if someone suggested me a decent dungeon crawler game for PC, featuring complex character development system and party management, rewarding process of grinding (if possible) and challenging battles, great variety of the stuff and high replay value? Much like Wizardry 8 but not from the series, not a Might and Magic incarnation or either of the Legend of Grimrock games. Not necessarily set in a dungeon, and not necessarily featuring grid-based movement.

PS since a certain point in time, I'm aware of Grimoire, and I really can't wait for it finally released.

Icewind Dale sounds like a good fit. Lots of party management, tactical battles, grinding is rewarding, lots of loot, decent replay value.  Not grid-based or in a single dungeon but lots of dungeon-diving and the story keeps you interested.

When you say complex character development, do you mean complex story and choices, or complex builds and tactics?  Do you want more RPG or more dungeon crawler?

If you mean story/RPG, then Dragon Age Origins is good, but if you mean complex builds maybe not. On high difficulties it's pretty tactical and action-oriented, but the replay value comes mostly from the story changes and not the battles, and you don't have to worry about grinding areas very much.

[RoguelikeRazuka]

Hey I would be tremendously grateful if someone suggested me a decent dungeon crawler game for PC, featuring complex character development system and party management, rewarding process of grinding (if possible) and challenging battles, great variety of the stuff and high replay value? Much like Wizardry 8 but not from the series, not a Might and Magic incarnation or either of the Legend of Grimrock games. Not necessarily set in a dungeon, and not necessarily featuring grid-based movement.

PS since a certain point in time, I'm aware of Grimoire, and I really can't wait for it finally released.

Icewind Dale sounds like a good fit. Lots of party management, tactical battles, grinding is rewarding, lots of loot, decent replay value.  Not grid-based or in a single dungeon but lots of dungeon-diving and the story keeps you interested.

When you say complex character development, do you mean complex story and choices, or complex builds and tactics?  Do you want more RPG or more dungeon crawler?

If you mean story/RPG, then Dragon Age Origins is good, but if you mean complex builds maybe not. On high difficulties it's pretty tactical and action-oriented, but the replay value comes mostly from the story changes and not the battles, and you don't have to worry about grinding areas very much.

I doubt I'm going to like any of Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, or Dragon Age (I haven't played these myself, but watched other people play), and honestly I never regarded Bioware games as much entertaining to me (except Neverwinter Nights, which is my favourite rpg, by the way).

What I meant when was speaking of character development was precisely about complexity and deepness of the rpg system of a game -- how varied, consistent and thought-out classes, races (with their talents and traits), stats, skills etc it offers, and how these elements exist individually and how they constitute the whole system, how they influence the gameplay etc. Frankly speaking, normally I never care about the plot or story too much (except cases when it's noticeably poor in quality or stunningly great), but I do care about roleplaying and highly appreciate when it's possible to solve certain quests more than in one way. Though I was asking exactly for a dungeon crawler, not a 'pure RPG'.

[Shadowlord]

What I meant when was speaking of character development was precisely about complexity and deepness of the rpg system of a game -- how varied, consistent and thought-out classes, races (with their talents and traits), stats, skills etc it offers, and how these elements exist individually and how they constitute the whole system, how they influence the gameplay etc.

This is not character development D: D: D:

[Jimmy]

Sounds to me like more of an MMO style of RPG is what you want. MMOs generally have broad variety and depth of character creation, consistent reward for grinding, and large numbers of challenging quests. I don't really think there's anything on a first person PC base that offers the same experience as an MMO.

[Trapezohedron]

Etrian odysseys then?

[Shadowlord]

Sounds to me like more of an MMO style of RPG is what you want. MMOs generally have broad variety and depth of character creation, consistent reward for grinding, and large numbers of challenging quests. I don't really think there's anything on a first person PC base that offers the same experience as an MMO.

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning is a very MMO-like singleplayer RPG. I mostly facerolled everything, but that's very MMO-like too. (And the "you are the chosen one" type plot actually works in a singleplayer game, instead of making no damn sense in an MMO)