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[Urist McTeellox]

I like the idea of multiple tiers for it, I felt that that worked pretty well in dwarf mode's religion system.  Perhaps the scalps and other honor-related things should be seperate from the military reactions though, to avoid reaction bottlenecks.

Awesome. Should the multiple tiers get bigger as well?  (I feel they should, as a tribe's honour grows, so will the number of orcs they'll want to have attending important ceremonies.)

I agree that scalping may be better off in a separate workshop (butchery?). I'm inclined to make it an automatic reaction, too.

As an idea, we could have the tribal circle still being used in the crafting of honor items, and upon their creation a small (but permanent) buff is given to all citizens in the workshop (or in line-of-sight). I think we could even get this to add to the orc descriptions: "Uggles McMuscles witnessed the glorious defeat of the elves recently."  "Uggles McMuscles witnessed the valour of the clan in combat recently".  Heck, even if the buffs don't do anything, I still like the idea of witnesses of important ceremonies getting messages.

I think a creature, an immobile pet "standard of honor" would be best. You can pasture it, it gives AoE Buffs, it can be destroyed by the enemy, you can set it up whereever you like, and it works well with the interactions.

Ah, but I want them being used to create buildings! The more honour a clan has, the more higher-level workshops it can support. For example, I want the caravanasi workshops to not depend upon blueprints, but the orcs having accumulated enough honour to attract the traders.

Cleaning rusty iron shouldnt take 2 bars. Its just rust removal. Most rusty iron comes in form of items anyway, so you have to melt them down first, then clean the rust, then smelt what you like. Thats already a lot of work.

Exactly! It's intended to be an unattactive reaction, to only used if the clan really needs pure iron for some reason. The blacksmoke furnace provides a much more efficient 1 acid + 3 rusty bars = 3 clean bars reaction, and would be the preferred way of processing rusty metals.

Mind you, if there's general support that it should be "blood + rusty iron + fuel = iron", then I'm happy to go with that (which also gives a slower reaction for forts which don't have access to acid-producing materials).

~ T

[CptCrunchy]

It would get kind of annoying to deconstruct the Tribal Circle every time you want to go up a tier, if each tier makes the last one obsolete. Maybe each new set of reactions could be a separate workshop, with materials necessary for their construction being made in the main part? You could even have the graphics for the workshops form a circle if placed correctly, like puzzle pieces. 

Is it possible to restrict where a workshop/furnace is placed so that it has to be next to a specific other workshop?


EDIT:
Hm, that would make it so that there wouldn't be one consolidated list of reactions in the workshop, though that would cut down on a slightly annoying feature of Masterwork's, having to memorize 50 or so new hotkeys or scroll through lists forever

[Urist McTeellox]

It would get kind of annoying to deconstruct the Tribal Circle every time you want to go up a tier, if each tier makes the last one obsolete. Maybe each new set of reactions could be a separate workshop, with materials necessary for their construction being made in the main part? You could even have the graphics for the workshops form a circle if placed correctly, like puzzle pieces. 

I like it!

So, crazy brainstorming here. Let's imagine a 3x3 grid. The central workshop our basic tribal circle. It does basic buffs, and allows sewing standards of honour. The four adjacent workshops require victories against each of the great races (elves, dwarves, humans, and drow), and provide race-thematic interactions. The "Monument of Mountain Conquest" (requiring dwarf-scalps to build) provides a "strength of the earth" buff that can be activated. The "Monument of the Razed Forests" (elves) provides a "swiftness of the birds" buff (speed), and so on.  If we change the buff reactions to be field-of-view then we don't need to worry about getting all the orcs to squeeze into a single 5x5 space.

The corner pieces of the circle, I'm not sure yet, so suggestions welcome. For this to look really nice, we probably want to provide buildmat-free placeholders for each of the eight surrounding workshops. So you can place your whole circle (the inner part looks cool, the outer part looks bare), and then replace the outer sections as you unlock the buildings.  (These placeholder buildings would go at the very end of the build menu, since you'd only ever make them once.)

I'm tempted to make all these outside only.

Is it possible to restrict where a workshop/furnace is placed so that it has to be next to a specific other workshop?

Alas no, at least not that I'm aware of. But if we make them look like they'll fit together, I'm sure players will do the right thing for the awesome screenshots and bragging rights.

Thanks again for the input!

~ T

[Meph]

So instead of one workshop with 10 reactions for 10 buffs, you would rather do 10 workshops, with 1 reaction each?  (Because you mention race-specific workshops)

[Gamerlord]

So instead of one workshop with 10 reactions for 10 buffs, you would rather do 10 workshops, with 1 reaction each?  (Because you mention race-specific workshops)

Probably more like 10 workshops with a bunch of different reactions. I can see the Dwarf one letting you make stuff like greataxes/zweihanders, maybe even plate armour and heavy crossbows/portable ballistae.

[CptCrunchy]

So instead of one workshop with 10 reactions for 10 buffs, you would rather do 10 workshops, with 1 reaction each?  (Because you mention race-specific workshops)

I was thinking more like a handful of reactions each.  It was my impression that this was going to be a major Orcish workshop, so there would be quite a few reactions, between trading scalps, buffing orcs, and redeeming scalps.  I feel it would be easier to sort the reactions in different workshops that are close to each other instead of searching through a long list or going to the manager screen for every order.  Also, if the scalping is going to be automatic, which I like the idea of, it would clog up the entire process if there was one single workshop.
I also just like the idea of a compound that you add to as time progresses, seems more fort-y than just plopping down a huge building

[Urist McTeellox]

Everyone else has answered this for me (you all rock!). I see some of the unlockable buildings from defeating races as possibly taking the place of some existing workshops. The Treesinger's Pagoda has always felt weird to me. Orcs, singing to trees? I much prefer the thought of a workshop, made from the remains of a defeated of elves, where trees are scared into doing what they're told.

Right now I'm still working on orcish raids, not because they're hard, but because I'm frustrated that autosyndrome ignores probability in reaction products.  So, y'know, I'm fixing that, and right now I'm elbows deep in DFHack and DF memory accesses. If I don't have any distractions, then expect a report in a few hours.

~ T

[Meph]

I'm frustrated that autosyndrome ignores probability in reaction products.  So, y'know, I'm fixing that, and right now I'm elbows deep in DFHack and DF memory accesses. If I don't have any distractions, then expect a report in a few hours.

Yeah, I always found that odd. I had to use funky workarounds that add many new reactions to simulate this lower percantage.

[Urist McTeellox]

I'm frustrated that autosyndrome ignores probability in reaction products.  So, y'know, I'm fixing that, and right now I'm elbows deep in DFHack and DF memory accesses. If I don't have any distractions, then expect a report in a few hours.

Yeah, I always found that odd. I had to use funky workarounds that add many new reactions to simulate this lower percantage.

Rejoice! Funky workarounds are now a thing of the past, as we now have probability-syndrome. This is a ruby script for DFHack, and an accompanying inorganic file that supports it. To use probability-syndromes, we just use the special INORGANIC:PROBABILITY_TABLE stone as a reaction product:

Code: [Select]

    [PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:PROBABILITY_TABLE]

Now let's say that we want there to be a 20% chance each of an an elf siege:

Code: [Select]

    [PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:PROBABILITY_TABLE]
    [PRODUCT:20:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SIEGE_ELF]

Pretty nifty, right? It gets better; we could have a 20% chance a siege from the four great races, and a 20% chance of nothing. Only *one* of these events will trigger, so you'll never end up being double-sieged:

Code: [Select]

    [PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:PROBABILITY_TABLE]
    [PRODUCT:20:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SIEGE_ELF]
    [PRODUCT:20:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SIEGE_HUMAN]
    [PRODUCT:20:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SIEGE_DWARF]
    [PRODUCT:20:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SIEGE_DROW]

This means we can now do things like have a reaction with a 90% chance of doing something nice, and a 10% chance of doing something nasty:

Code: [Select]

    [PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:PROBABILITY_TABLE]
    [PRODUCT:90:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SOMETHING_NICE]
    [PRODUCT:10:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SOMETHING_NASTY]

So, I know what you're thinking... What do those inorganics actually look like?

Code: [Select]

[INORGANIC:SIEGE_ELF]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_VAPOR_TEMPLATE]
    [SYNDROME]
        [SYN_CLASS:\AUTO_SYNDROME]
        [SYN_CLASS:\COMMAND]
        [SYN_CLASS:probability-syndrome][SYN_CLASS:cmd]
            [SYN_CLASS:force]
            [SYN_CLASS:siege]
            [SYN_CLASS:FOREST]

In other words, they're the DFHack command you want to run (along with arguments), but with '[SYN_CLASS:\AUTO_SYNDROME] [SYN_CLASS:\COMMAND] [SYN_CLASS:probability-syndrome] [SYN_CLASS:cmd]', at the front. This sequence of tags fires off AutoSyndrome (which we need because it cleans up the rocks for us), but delegates the command itself to probability-syndrome. The PROBABILITY_TABLE inorganic actually does the heavy lifting, as it's what inspects the reaction products and decides what to actually fire.

Currently, you can only use probability-syndrome to run commands, and right now the \REACTION_INDEX, \WORKER_ID, and \LOCATION tags from AutoSyndrome don't work in probability-syndrome commands. There's no technical limitation stopping us there, I just haven't written the code yet. (Patches welcome!)  Probability-syndrome has only been tested under DFHack r4; I don't believe that r3 has the necessary df.dfhack_run() method available.

Probability-syndrome is already part of the Masterwork Dwarf Fortress: Studded With Patches master branch, but I'll also be bundling this up into a standalone zip which I'll post on the DF Modders' board, because I'm sure others will find this useful.

And now, finally, I can have those orcish raids trigger sieges, without having to write an inorganic for every one.

~ T

[Meph]

That means the kobold system of theft, and the dwarven expeditions can both be cleaned up with that. Thats awesome. I would suggest that you make a new thread for probability_syndrome in the utility section, because I know for a fact that several other modders where looking for something like that as well.

Nice work.

[Urist McTeellox]

That means the kobold system of theft, and the dwarven expeditions can both be cleaned up with that. Thats awesome. I would suggest that you make a new thread for probability_syndrome in the utility section, because I know for a fact that several other modders where looking for something like that as well.

Nice work.

Thanks!

And yoinking from SWP over to here, where it's more appropriate:

You misunderstood: I cant add the reaction class to the creature. If you want to do it the way I described, you have to make a new bone for each race, and make their skulls consist of that bone. And add the reaction class to the material-template of that new bone. Thats a lot of work, because you also need to alter the creature files, most of which are in every tileset. ELF, HUMAN, DWARF, DWARF_M, DWARF_EVIL, ELF_EVIL, HUMAN_EVIL, DROW, DROW_EVIL, KOBOLD, KOBOLD_CAMP, GOBLIN, ORC, WARLOCK, GREMLIN, GREMLIN2, TROGLODYTE, BAT_MAN.

Drat. I'm guessing I can't do this by adding a [CREATURE_CLASS:SCLAPABLE] somehow, or a body detail plan, or some other thing which then just allows us to add a single tag to each of the interesting races?

I don't suppose you might have an example of the bone + skull variation? I'm not exactly scared by having to change multiple files, since I already know regular expressions and have code to patch the tilesets for me.

Does it have to be a specific creature scalp, is adding "any skull = totem and scalp" not enough?

I'm afraid not. There is no honour in butchering a mole-weasel, and yet it has a skull.

~ T

[Meph]

Drat. I'm guessing I can't do this by adding a [CREATURE_CLASS:SCLAPABLE] somehow, or a body detail plan, or some other thing which then just allows us to add a single tag to each of the interesting races?

No, because you work with materials and items, not with creatures. You kill a creature, but whats left is just the tissue material that the creature used.

[Urist McTeellox]

Work to date:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Orcish raids now come with the risk of triggering siege. (McTeellox)
• Orc: #51 - Added costs to reaction names. Raided crates now auto unpack. (McTeellox)
• Orcs now have access to brass bullets from all reactions. (McTeellox)
• Add orc fortress cheat reactions for testing. (McTeellox)
• GH #63 - Drydock, Storm Altar, Sun Orrery, and Stone circle are outside only. (McTeellox)
• entity_orcfort_taigaorc: Whitespace only and reordering changes. (McTeellox)
• GH #62 - Added 'corsair arms' (pistol + dagger) to freelancer (McTeellox)
• GH #51 - Added orcs ability to raid farmlands for food. (McTeellox)
• Orcs: Blacksmoke furnaces now require ironbone rather than iron to build. (McTeellox)

Milestone 1 work remaining: here. (Help/patches welcome!)

Since it's now really easy for me to add autosyndrome command probabilities to reactions, I'm toying with the idea of having orcish raids occasionally spawn an enemies at the raiding dock. This may range from a single stow-away (who arrives as soon as the reaction finishes), to a whole squad of enemies with a time delay ("the enemy has landed a boat at your dock!"). These have the advantages that I can have them work even when you don't meet the siege triggers for a civilisation, they feel very thematic, and it means that your raider's dock acts as a source of ingres into your camp, so keeping it well-defended during active raiding seasons will be a must.  The downside is that it means more fiddly work with DFHack to set up enemies arriving on a timer, and I don't know if the spawn function lets me spawn an enemy with equipment attached.

This will probably be a milestone 2 feature.

~ T

[Meph]

Orcs need a way to process mutilated corpses and megabeasts => Itemcorpse for invaders are gone.

Megabeasts:
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:SLAUGHTERHOUSE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:SLUGHTERHOUSE_SKILL]=> not a typo. (well, a typo, but dont fix it please)
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_COLOSSUS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_DRAGON]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_GIANT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_CYCLOPS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_ETTIN]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_MINOTAUR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_HYDRA]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_ROC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_BALROG]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_GRIFFON]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_MANTICORE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_PHOENIX]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_DEEP_CROW]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_THUNDERBIRD]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_DRAGON_ENGINE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_BLACKSMITH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_MAIDEN]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_CENTAUR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_BEHEMOTH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_SPIDER_QUEEN]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_CYCLOPS_GELV]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_ROCK_GUARDIAN]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_FOREST_GIANT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_MOUNTAIN_GIANT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_SKY_GIANT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_WRAITH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_GARGOYLE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_LICH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_BITER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_VAMPIRE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUTCHER_MEGABEAST_FIEND]

Dwarves and Kobolds use these, so give them to Orcs as well.

Dont know if you want to use this:
[REACTION:TRAIN_BEAST_WRESTLING]
[NAME:Use megabeast soul to get great power]
[BUILDING:DRUIDS_HUT:NONE] => kobold
[BUILDING:MEGABEAST_CELL:CUSTOM_S] => dwarf
[REAGENT:A:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_AETHER:INORGANIC:BLANK_SOUL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:LEGENDARY]
[PRODUCT:0:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:ANNOUNCEMENT_LEGENDARY]
[SKILL:KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION]

It sets all combat skills to 10 on the worker. So for every dead and butchered megabeast, you can uplift one of your soldiers. Dwarves and kobolds use it atm. It will work on orcs as well, it runs a dfhack script.

TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_AETHER:INORGANIC:BLANK_SOUL => I still use the old souls here,because they dont wither away. I wouldnt want people to lose a megabeast soul that way. They will stay tools, so that people can stockpile and move them around if they want to. Megabeasts wont leave the new souls, because they cant be butchered, as they leave no corpses, but only itemcorpses.

[Meph]

Suggestions: Add a hint, that the magical buildings are outside-only.

Go underneath the building [BUILDING_FURNACE:SORCERY_LABEL] and add this hint building: [PERMITTED_BUILDING:OUTSIDE_ONLY_LABEL]

Code: [Select]

[BUILDING_FURNACE:OUTSIDE_ONLY_LABEL]
   [NAME:======MUST=BE=OUTSIDE=====]
   [NAME_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [WORK_LOCATION:0:0]
[DIM:15:2]
[BLOCK:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[BLOCK:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:0:1:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:0:2:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:0:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:0:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:1:1:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:1:2:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:1:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:1:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:2:1:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:2:2:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:2:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:3:1:84:104:101:32:108:111:118:101:32:116:104:97:116:32:32]
[TILE:3:2:99:111:117:100:110:116:32:98:101:33:216:136:233:244:216]
[COLOR:3:1:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:3:2:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:1:7:0:1:7:4:1:7:0:1:7:0:1]