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[BlackFlyme]

How does hunting work when someone doesn't actually have the ability to gain proficency in a weapon? For example, ghouls can't use any ranged weapons as far as I know. Will they just go into a constant 'cancel job' loop because they're equipping a weapon they can't use? or do they just equip it and not use it?

They should still be able to use their hunting weapon. They'll just be terrible at it, since they can't gain any skill.

[shadowclasper]

will they hunt out the weapon they're most proficient with? Or just the first one to come to hand?

Is there a way to adjust how far a ranged weapon will be hurled or is it hard coded?


edit: Also, Meph, can you give me a list of all the various dust types and potential reagents for making spell materials you might want to include? If you do I can probably give you a complete list of possible spell components and such to be crafted at the alchemist (each combination of 3 components for the most part, and some combinations of far more than that)

Also, I'd suggest some better distinguishing factors amongst objects.

Inorganic things (metals, gems, rocks) get reduced to 'Dust'
Plant organic things (plants, poisonous plants, wood, and maybe crystals given that they're technically a kind of wood) get reduced to 'Powder'
Organic things (bones, leather, meat, blood) get reduced down into 'Essence'

So by mixing dusts, powders, and essences you get various spell components. I can come up with quite a few from various things.

=Plants=
Good Plants are reduced to 'pure powder'. 'Pure Powder' has to be 'tainted' by something to create 'defiled powder' before it can be used in other reactions.
Evil Plants are reduced to 'vile powder'
Poisonous Plants are reduced to 'toxic powder'
Normal Plants are reduced to 'plant powder'

=Woods=
Above Ground Wood are reduced to 'wood powder'
Fungal Wood are reduced to 'fungal powder'
crystal wood are reduced to 'crystal powder'
deep wood are reduced to 'twisted powder'

=Special Woods=
metal grade trees are reduced to dust that's the same as weapon's grade metal dust (so 'iron dust' and 'steel dust')

=Good/Evil Woods=
good/evil trees give powder the same as good/evil plants.

=Soils/Sands=
soils and sands just give normal sand. (soil and clay have to be specially treated to reduce them to sand)

=Fuels=
Fuels are reduced to 'burning dust' or maybe 'combustible dust'

=Metals=
Normal metals are reduced to 'metallic dust'
Weapon's grade metals and special metals are reduced to '[metal name] dust'

=Rocks=
all rocks become 'stone dust'

=Gems=
assuming that gems are usually all reduced to just 'gems' then they become 'gem dust'

=Special Gems=
Blood of Armok becomes 'stone-vein dust'
Tear of Armok becomes 'stone-gland dust'
Bone of Armok becomes 'stone-marrow dust'

=Fossils=
Fossils become 'dust of ancient death'
Relics become 'dust of ancient memory'
Treasure becomes 'dust of ancient wealth'

=Special Inorganic Materials=
Cave Fungus is reduced to 'fungal powder'
Living Rock is reduced to 'flesh essence'
Stable warpstone is reduced to 'warp dust'

=Living Materials=
Meats are reduced to 'flesh essence'
Bones are reduced to 'bone essence'
leathers are reduced to 'skin essence' or 'hide essence' I guess.
blood is reduced to 'blood essence'
shells are reduced to 'shell essence'
scales are reduced to 'scale essence'
poisons taken from animals are reduced to 'venom essence'


Is everything I -think- so I hope that gives you plenty of materials to work with. 26 not including the various kinds of metal dusts.
With metals, we have the alchemical table to work with.
That's 15.
Rusty Iron and Rusty Steel should probably have to be processed into proper bars. Or perhaps they both give a reagent called 'Rust Dust' or just "Rust" Either way, that's another potential 1.
Orichalcum, Deep Bronze, Meteoric, Bifrost, Volcanic, and Adamantine brings that count up by another 6

So that gives us  48, 49 if you include Rust.

48 reagents. In combinations of 3. That's potentially a fuck ton of possible combinations that can result in all kinds of things. From ammo, to poisons, to spell components, to research components, to stuff to build other things.

I'd imagine warlocks pretty much reduce EVERYTHING to dust. Everything. Many of these dusts could probably stand in for one another I guess... your call obviously Meph. But my idea is that components made from dust would be used in just about any mid-to-late construction on the parts of the warlocks.

They probably shouldn't use anything at mid-to-late levels that isn't built from components made from various dusts.

What do you guys think?

edit2: Did I miss any materials that warlocks might end up collecting without having a real need of? Glass? Anything else?

edit3:
So, various buildings as well.

Wood Grinder: Reduces wood to powder
Plant Grinder: Reduces plants to powder
Ore Grinder: Reduces ore to dust
Metal Grinder: Reduces processed metals and metal items into dust (could be combined with the above)
Gem Grinder: Reduces gems to dust.
Soil Processor: Reduces and clay soil to sand, and fuels to dust.
Corpse Grinder: Reduces Bones, meats, leathers, scales, shells, and similar to essence.
Fluid Renderer: Reduces blood and animal poisons to essence.

Memory Renderer: For processing the various fossil type objects that aren't used for other things.

Doom Maw: A special grinder that grinds special materials. Suggest that it should be kinda alive. It is required to reduce things like deep and crystal woods into powder, as well as the special gems like the Blood, Tears, and Bones of Armok. Orichalcum, Bifrost, Volcanic, and Adamantine too would need the Doom Maw to process them down into their dusts.

[LMeire]

-snip-

What about liquids like acid, oil and lye?

[mahrgell]

Bigger is not always better...
or:
sometimes less is more

[Meph]

The assumption is that players will have a pretty hard time memorizing and stockpiling all this.

=Soils/Sands=
soils and sands just give normal sand. (soil and clay have to be specially treated to reduce them to sand)

=Fuels=
Fuels are reduced to 'burning dust' or maybe 'combustible dust'

=Special Gems=
Blood of Armok becomes 'stone-vein dust'
Tear of Armok becomes 'stone-gland dust'
Bone of Armok becomes 'stone-marrow dust'

=Fossils=
Fossils become 'dust of ancient death'
Relics become 'dust of ancient memory'
Treasure becomes 'dust of ancient wealth'

=Special Inorganic Materials=
Cave Fungus is reduced to 'fungal powder'
Living Rock is reduced to 'flesh essence'
Stable warpstone is reduced to 'warp dust'

=Living Materials=
Meats are reduced to 'flesh essence'
Bones are reduced to 'bone essence'
leathers are reduced to 'skin essence' or 'hide essence' I guess.
blood is reduced to 'blood essence'
shells are reduced to 'shell essence'
scales are reduced to 'scale essence'
poisons taken from animals are reduced to 'venom essence'

These ones for example I wouldnt use. Sand and Dirt is endless in supply, and wouldnt add anything to the gameplay, besides more hauling. Charcoal and coke will be used as fuel directly. Special Gems get their own workshops, Archeology probably as well. Both are very rare, and I dont want to base spells and libraries on them. There are many maps in which players do not have these inorganics at all. Bodyparts/meat will be used directly in reactions.

On the other hand, I truly love the idea of a great strip-mine area that heeds mechanical power and all raw materials are just thrown in. I truly do. Currently all trees, plants, ores and gems can be thrown in. Soil and Rock is too common to really play a role, and the rare parts are too rare, making the game more inbalanced on different maps.

I might do a item shredder (for goblinite), and maybe I can change the bonemill to a "organic shredder", even if I would need a better name for that.

[razorback]

Concerning hunting:

i have never used traditional hunters, my lifestock was allways sufficient and if not i used military hunting.
so i have no idea about the possible problems with normal hunting but as i imagine - if you just assign the right ammo (e.g. bolas) your hunters should be able to equip the right weapon right?
i certainly like ghouls with bolas - maaaybe give them some additional thrower skill and everything should be right. (and i also really like rather mediocre skilled skelletons with bows patrolling in bulk on my towers walls^^)


if everything fails i have a little idea for military hunting/shortness of squads:
at the moment it seems that the harbinger is the key position to unlock all the other squads and thus a little bit unconvenient concerning room requirements.

what if there was an additional "noble" with a small squad (~5 units) wich is available from the beginning like the harbinger but has no or lesser room requirements.
at first, this could be used as an early but limited defense and later on as the dedicated hunting crew.
could be named "persecutor" or so...


Magic:

i have also never used magic, so some questiones:
-is it possible to see somewhere wich spells a warlock has allready learnd (i recall an other thread about orcs or bolds where it says you have to remember them on your own :S )
-does 'friendly fire' also include self harm of the caster?

might be a stupid question but: the stairs in the library ar not useable, are they? (but i would like that^^)

[mahrgell]

About the spells listing. If each spell is like a buff, they would be all listed in Dwarf Therapist. That should be enough, since i assume, that everyone uses DT anyway all the time ^^.

[Meph]

friendly fire I hope to get rid of.

stairs in buildings are not useable. Just decoration.

[razorback]

Since you blew my mind by making non-rectangular building:

could you just leave the space where the stairs are emtpy - so one can build whatever he likes to in that tile (yes, even stairs )

[Meph]

The buildings are rectangular.  I just used transparent tiles for the edges. But they are still 11x11. I cant leave spaces out for furniture or stairs, sorry. But you can build them all 1 tile apart, it will still look nice and leaves space for stairs and walls and doors.

[SharpKris]

Meph, whats your take on Abominations for warlocks? 

[Meph]

They are planned, were planned from the start. See the workshop "Fleshsmith". The design exists, the reactions not yet. But they will come.

I spend today updating scripts.
Darkpact is better, but still causes crashes. Less crashes, but still a problem.
Spawned units can now use interactions. YEAH THIS IS HUGE.
Spawned units can now join squads. YEAH THIS IS HUGER. I KNOW THIS ISNT A WORD.
The grand Convocation can destroy entire sieges, test successful. YEAH BUT WHY AM I YELLING?

[DoX]

I DON'T KNOW MEPH BUT IT SEEMS TO BE HUGERLY CONTAGIOUS.

[Jaso11111]

WHAT?! I CANT HEAR YOU, EVERYONE IS YELLING!

[megahelmet]

Spawned units can now join squads. YEAH THIS IS HUGER. I KNOW THIS ISNT A WORD.

Zomgies! Hugest huger of all! I'm going to field entire squads of fire mages bought from the Town Portal in dwarf mode now.