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[Gamerlord]

Demonic Attorney? Now that I'm interested in!

[shadowclasper]

Just a thought, but rather than selling them to someone for souls. What if instead we took the view that when something is made, it has, I dunno, a certain amount of 'soul' put into it. Like when you work really hard at something, that effort makes it something more. When people have invested something in themselves into it. When somebody dies near an object. That sort of thing. It's a pretty common idea that objects can take on a life of their own, that they can have their own souls through special circumstances or be possessed by ghosts and such.

What if instead warlocks had a way of extracting the dregs and bits of soul that cling to objects that were special to someone or that effort went into making? Or that someone died holding? (which pretty much means all objects). Plants and animals would have much weaker souls, but they could also be broken down and their 'soul stuff' extracted.

Get enough of this soul stuff together, and you produce a shiny new soul to fuel warlock reactions?

Another way to think of it is that everything in the world has a small spirit in it. The whole 'kami' theory. They're nothing compared to the souls of living beings or vast and powerful entities, but when you gather enough of them together you can produce a new soul?

Production of them I guess could work the same way as producing orichalcum? Dump so many things into the reaction to be rendered down for their base 'soul stuff' and then combined into a soul? It feels more warlocky to squeeze every last bit of worth from worthless objects, rather than simply trading them to 'lesser' beings in return for their souls which could so easily be taken with or without their consent?

[Kaos]

I know Warlocks don't trade, I guess the hoard-master is a sort of substitute, but I'd really like to be able to purchase/order the warlock-exclusive pets somehow... maybe having warlocks trade with other warlock civs or through a building like the ones that require trading licenses for dwarves


Also expanding on the idea of the hoard-master to dump invader items in exchange for souls, maybe instead of giving the soul item directly it spawns a living creature that you can kill to get the soul?


Also expanding on the idea of the previous post and taking into consideration that some items that are spawned by ether and then wither away after a while and the problem of masterwork items getting destroyed and causing happiness hit to the warlock who made it, can't masterwork ethereal items be used in a reaction in a workshop were they would be gone and you get a soul back? you could let them wither away and get the happiness penalty or safely extract a soul from them avoiding the penalty?

[DoX]

Honestly, I agree with the previous sentiments. Warlocks shouldn't trade, even with the Drow. A demon? Maybe. Trading doesn't seem to be a good word for it.

How about a Sloth Demon? You'd literally toss batches of metal, gems, leather, what have you into his gaping maw and he'd spit out souls, which you'd then catch with hourglasses. Or a demon of greed, who hordes trinkets and shiny items and pays you in souls? Like a black market devil, selling you back sacrificed souls?

Or even just a kind of evil wishing well, a portal into the underworld that you throw "refuse", that it weapons and gems and things Warlocks don't use, and it forces souls out?

Or a Kobold catcher!

Ah haha! Like a magical snare trap you set up! You put in armor, or gems, or coins. The more valuable, the higher chance you'll catch a Kobold thief, who you can then sacrifice for a soul! You wouldn't even need to use an actual Kob unit, you can just have it as a tool item, "Trapped Kobold Thief".

[shadowclasper]

well what if the warlocks have a separate civ similar to the Dwarven Legion?

The Flesh Mongers or Soul Traders or whatever. They only carry with them souls, phylacteries, some warlock building blue prints, spell types, and perhaps some other stuff?

The idea would be that while MANY warlocks do not trade, they set up their towers and dungeons and seclude themselves, the soul traders bring with them slaves, souls, demonic contracts, pets, and things that this shadowy, nomadic, gypsy like order of monsters and outcastes even the warlocks sorta look down on (turning our noble path towards pure PROFIT! Despicable!)

This is the only kind of warlock trade I could see happening. The Flesh Circus would be the trade depot of choice. Full of sacrificial victims, flesh beast like monsters, demons, and souls. Hell, they might not have souls for trade, they just bring slaves to be sacrificed for their souls. Easier, cheaper way of keeping souls fresh unlike phylacteries?

The Flesh Circus would probably move between all the factions who see slavery as okay. But they'd be pretty much the only trade partners of the warlocks.

They might also act as the only way warlocks REALLY communicate with one another. These sorta outcaste warlocks bring messages back and forth? Like all warlocks they pledge allegiance to the High Sorcerer/King type, but unlike other warlocks, they have no desire to climb the ladders of power, either due to lacking skill, or due to lacking ambition enough for it. As such, all other warlocks look upon the Flesh Circus as weird outcastes. Useful for their purposes, but not something you'd go out of your way to help.

edit: Also, had an idea. Ritual circles. They're workshops that are incredibly quick to build, require someone of warlock caste to work (or perhaps just require a warlock's weapon type tool?), and are basically big 'LoS' spell effects. If they could somehow decay that'd be even better. (perhaps they require a soul to build which will decay and thus destroy the ritual circle in time?) The idea is players can set them up super quick in the middle of a battle to cause crazy things to happen. Your warlocks would set up such ritual circles well behind the massive screen of 100 skeletons and ghouls, and activate, for example, a massive evil rain.

[Kaos]

another idea for dumping items would be to just shred them like warlocks do with everything else? steel warhammer gets shredded into steel powder or whatever steel bars get shredded into, and then it's used as reagents for spells, like everything else...

[shadowclasper]

Also a question. What spells can warlocks call upon? Can they just call on every possible non-good spell? Or is there more to it than that?

edit: Also thought for the Flesh Circus and for warlocks in general. What about other night creatures? They seem like natural allies/pets/slaves for the Warlocks? or at least something they'd cultivate for their body parts.

Also it seems like a very warlocky thing to release a horde of were beasts and then gather them all back up. It'd be great to do something like cursing people into werebeasts, keeping them in cages or on chains to be food for vampires, and also to just, release, upon hapless enemies. Then use a mass sleep spell to capture them all easily again. Basically, the idea is that we should have more things to do with captured people than just turn them into ghouls. What about other experiments, ways to upgrade the efficacy of poisons and spells? Test subjects basically. They might even be a caste created by a torture chamber reaction that basically turns them into pets like changelings or something.

edit2: Also slave workshops using demons to produce incredibly powerful gear in return for souls.

[Meph]

I have to be very difficult about procedually generated creatures like night creatures and demons, because they are specific to each worldgen. Its very easy to break, if I call for NIGHT_CREATURE_9, but the world only has 1.

Flesh Circus: No. I cant add more races like that. I want to remove some, before I add more. Maybe, just maybe I will change the dwarven Legion to a good aligned mercenary/adventurer type, and the fleshcircus idea as a evil aligned mercenary horde.

The Flesh Mongers or Soul Traders or whatever. They only carry with them souls, phylacteries, some warlock building blue prints, spell types, and perhaps some other stuff?

I can simply make Warlocks have pull animals, no active seasons, and you call the traders like you call gnomish traders in dwarf mode. And dwarves, orcs and kobolds would only get Warlock sieges, when you do something that attracts their attention. (that would also fix the issue with people that say: Warlock too overpowered, I play without them.)

Slave Workshops with demons giving stuff for souls: Already planned, minus the slave part. They are traders, they take souls for stuff. No slavery involved.

I'd really like to be able to purchase/order the warlock-exclusive pets somehow

This is already half done. I just posted yesterday about the creatures I want to spawn. The first set is now in the Demonic Attorney, buyable with souls. At embark you still wont have any creatures (maybe a few odd ones), but all others you have to constructs or buy for souls.

another idea for dumping items would be to just shred them like warlocks do with everything else? steel warhammer gets shredded into steel powder or whatever steel bars get shredded into, and then it's used as reagents for spells, like everything else...

That makes sense. I dont have an bar/metal shredder atm, just rock/ore, but maybe I will do one more. Who knows. It could include items made of metal.

Ritual circles. They're workshops that are incredibly quick to build, require someone of warlock caste to work (or perhaps just require a warlock's weapon type tool?), and are basically big 'LoS' spell effects

Not possible. Or better: Perfectly possible, but the civilians would probably flee from the enemy, and the soldiers dont do jobs, so you dont have anyone to activate it. Same problem that siege engines have in normal DF.

Also expanding on the idea of the hoard-master to dump invader items in exchange for souls, maybe instead of giving the soul item directly it spawns a living creature that you can kill to get the soul?

That would also mean you get free scouts, bones, skulls, meat and organs. A bit much.

Like a black market devil, selling you back sacrificed souls?

I never heard about demons GIVING people souls for material goods. Its the other way around.

can't masterwork ethereal items be used in a reaction in a workshop

I cant say which quality an item has to have. Would be awesome if I could, but I cant. ^^

Honestly, I agree with the previous sentiments. Warlocks shouldn't trade, even with the Drow. A demon? Maybe. Trading doesn't seem to be a good word for it.

How about a Sloth Demon? You'd literally toss batches of metal, gems, leather, what have you into his gaping maw and he'd spit out souls, which you'd then catch with hourglasses. Or a demon of greed, who hordes trinkets and shiny items and pays you in souls? Like a black market devil, selling you back sacrificed souls?

Or even just a kind of evil wishing well, a portal into the underworld that you throw "refuse", that it weapons and gems and things Warlocks don't use, and it forces souls out?

Or a Kobold catcher!

I do like those ideas. In general I wanted to go for something that lets you get rid of unwanted items that Warlocks dont need, and gives you back something you do need. Souls. I almost made that guy be a Corpse-Trader, buying totems, bones, coffins, meat, corpses and give you back coins... but what should you do with coins?

The kobold catcher idea sounds nice. I could make it outside only, but it would be odd with Warlocks actually working on it to spawn kobolds. ^^

Cursing someone into a werebeast is something I like a lot. Make sieges take themselves apart.

[Gamerlord]

Hey Meph, I had a small thought, since you made the Dwarven Legion just for the dwarves to call on, can you make a race that only invades the Warlocks after raids/massive ceremonies or something?

[Meph]

Gamerlord, did you even read the post above you? ^^

[Gamerlord]

I'm kinda distracted by a ton of fanfiction at the moment; blame Flying Dice for providing links.

[zlurker]

Anybody know what necromancer towers look like in Phoebus? I've never really wanted to embark on one before so I don't have a clue. :<

[shadowclasper]

Well just a thought.

Have the "Legion of Light" to replace the Dwarven legion as a general 'good guy' mercenary faction.

Have the "Flesh Circus" for the evil counterpart.

Remove the evil clone races and put them as a single faction of "Outcastes" do a similar thing for good versions of evil races I guess. "Uncorrupted" perhaps?

Make sure for balance reasons trade is fairly equal between the 2 sides.

Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Drow, Gnomes on one side.

Goblins, Orcs, Something, Something, Warlocks on the other.

So total trade alliances would be:

Good Guys:
Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Drow? And Gnomes, plus the 'Uncorrupted' perhaps in trade partnerships.
The Legion of Light as the mercenaries.

Bad Guys:
Goblins, Orcs, Warlocks, two others.
The Flesh Circus as the mercenaries.

Also perhaps rather than having 'Uncorrupted' so there's a perfect counter part. Just make one of the evil races the Corsairs or the Lawless. A bunch of cutthroats drawn from every single race into a piratical anything goes faction on the high seas?

Legion of Light could also potentially draw from race members of the 'evil' factions, as rare 'uncorrupted' members and adventurers who have seen the errors of their race, etc.etc.

Anyway. I'd just get rid of the mirrors and replace them with something else entirely.

Other ideas: The Deepborn, weird elemental cthulubeasts who are the counterparts to the drow. And there's those reaver guys who'd make excellent counterparts to either elves or gnomes.

That's my take on it at least.

[Dwarf_Eater]

As for infromation about demonology and such:
http://ebookee.org/Aleister-Crowley-Books_1744876.html
Books of Aleister Crowley. I don't remember which exactly but one of them should have excactly described ritual of demon summoning (along with description of every one of them)

Aaand about WH
some fancy eyecandy stuff:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat440166a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos

Last ones are my favourites. It's about WH, but it's just unlimited idea works ^^
http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?sort1=5
http://www.lexicanum.com/

[Talvara]

How about a decorative bone garden as a piece of furniture with pleasantly arranged bones(very zen and stuff), It would essentially be like a statue giving happiness and improving attraction. with the added bonus that it can be raised into a skeleton in a pinch. either via interaction or lever (I have no idea if making stuff work with levers is a thing or not)

now I'm just going a bit overboard here... but lets say these bone gardens don't sound completely silly. would it be possible to have the gardens have a chance to also contain a weapon? lets say you make 20 bone gardens ready to be placed and you inspect the lot of them and find that 2 of them have spears! so you place them near an entrance and when invaders come close, pull the lever associated with the 2 'spear' bone gardens and voila! instant weaklings protecting your front door... until they wander off or are smashed into dust! (I'm guessing since they wont be military they might just run away? or does no fear counteract that?)

edit: naturally they'd cost the same or more as it would to raise an active skeleton, Think of bone gardens as an apple for a rainy day.