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[smjjames]

I confirm taming ennemy pet then killing them will cause loyalty cascade.  Even after they reverted to wild state. I did have some !fun! with this one ><
However, I do think wild animal can claim nest box

If you want, you can tame them, breed some and throw parents in a death pit once egg hatched. No loyalty cascade this way.

Actually, I had made a similar mistake with trying to tame some war mounts and then butcher them. When they disappeared off the list, I tried to stick them in a pasture and found out that they were still aggressive. I had to kill the mounts, but didn't have a loyalty cascade, not sure if I simply got lucky or if something else happened which kept the loyalty cascade from happening.

[Steelconfused]

I suppose you were lucky. I had a fort go down due to Loyalty cascade, caused by taming and pasturing toads...

[Garath]

The dwarf that killed them might have died from injuries for example. I think if it was killed by a dog or something you can also avoid loyalty cascades in this situation, I remember a thread about that, but I'm not sure.

[smjjames]

My soldiers are the ones who killed the war beasts and they lived.

I don't know how, but I managed to avoid a loyalty cascade in that fort.

[Syndic]

A small update on the project:

I set up the breeding grounds mostly.

I put a male in a 1x1 room with a locked (stone so he doesn't break it) door, behind which a cage trap waits to catch him again once he's done his job. While I know that it is possible for a male to impregnate a female if (only) the male is in a cage, I don't want to take any chances and this was easy enough to build.

My master animal trainer (generations of war dogs and the domestication of a few species of giant bird trained him up^^) had already trained one of the crocodiles earlier - before it was posted here that sieger mounts disappear from the animal list once trained. This proved valuable as it made me aware of one very useful fact: the animals REAPPEAR on said list once they're both fully wild again (not just semi-wild) and in a cage. So by simply never removing this first crocodile from its cage, he has so far tamed it three times. I will continue this circle until I get a nice training level that should hopefully last long enough for a clutch of eggs to hatch (do you think *tame* is good enough? he already managed that one before, but I didn't have the setup done yet then).
Also on that note, I will test whether I can simply assign such an invader mount to a built cage once it goes semi-wild. If the dwarves put the semi-wild beast back in the cage I can then wait for it to fully revert and be retrained, which might be useful.

Once I have a female crocodile with decent taming level, I will put it in the breeding corridor.  It's 1 tile wide, has a restraint at the end for the croc, then a nest box, then a stone door (you can never have enough barriers between potentially dangerous animals and your valuable dwarves^^) followed by some lever-controlled upright spears, a wooden door as bait and another stone door as failsafe in case I need time to bring my military into position.

[Stormfeather]

Looking forward to results, because this particular bit of bugginess drives me nuts.

[Syndic]

Hmm... The giant toads (I modded them to have a child tag so they would breed) gave birth to "hostile", not "wild animal" offspring... I guess at least they won't eat their babies this way, but I had hoped to get a stock of truly tame ones out of this.

Now, is the buggy tamed invader mount behaviour based on "killed a dwarf" or based on "hostile faction"... :/

I will continue the cave croc experiment, but with a bit lower expectations 

[Garath]

It is always wise to lower your expectations

This is really starting to sound interesting. Children inherit the 'tame' level of their mother, so if the children are all hostile this would indicate that there is a level of hostility overriding the taming process, and if they inherited this hostility, even the children of the children would inherit it. Or I'm just pulling all this out of my ass because it sounds complicated and fun.... Interesting

[Syndic]

Well, my animal trainer turned those (wild, born in the cage with their mother whom I just let out briefly to get pregnant) giant toad children into "stray giant toad child <tame>". So far they have remained in their pasture and not attacked the engraver who is busy smoothing it out or his kid that keeps following him around. Looking good on that end, but let's hold off the celebrations until they grow up^^

The crocs have yet to revert for retraining, so no new news there.

/Edit: one more smallish update: I found my old bug report about the tamed invader mounts still acting untame, and it's been marked as resolved. So I guess I can hope for my dwarves to NOT run in terror as they try to handle the crocs (as long as they're still *trained*, +trained+, -trained-, trained... hmm, wonder if I'll risk letting it get to semi-wild or if I should try recaging at (no-quality) tamed...

And one of the crocs got *trained* status just now, so I'll start the experiment next time I play 

[Syndic]

Well, this brings the experiment to a disappointing - but at least conclusive - end.

Chaining the croc on the nestbox led to it just blinking regular and brown background - I assume it was trying to destroy the restraint but couldn't due to the "buildingdestroyers can't destroy things from 1 tile away and might get stuck" bug.

Trying to pasture the croc on the nestbox: dwarf brings croc to pasture, walks away. Croc ignores the pasture and chases dwarf, who queues a job to bring it back to the pasture.... which he then cancels, interrupted by cave crocodile (and yeah, it attacked him too. he dodged though)

As a last resort, trying to pit the croc in a 1x1 pit with the nestbox led to a destroyed nest box and a croc in an empty pit where it won't lay any eggs.

So yeah, the bug with tamed invader mounts behaving like untamed ones still exists, and there's no way I can think of to obtain children from egglaying invader mounts. But, you can tame the children of mounts that give live birth - and with said children belonging to the same faction as their parents, this is marginally easier than I thought (marginally because the easiest way, just having them give birth in a cage, is unaffected).

I'm reopening the bugrep at http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3059 and uploading a save, in case anyone else has a smart idea they want to test

[gtaguy]

Drop a load of shit on it from above. Kill it that way.

[Garath]

One reason why the 'bug' may be reported as resolved even though nothing changed may be that this is intended behavior. The invader mounts are supposed to be hostile and are trained to kill dorfs, maybe they're not supposed to be trainable, or at least not easily and still remaining hostile

[Syndic]

I don't think that's it - Toady's comment when closing the bugrep was

Tried to test this as best I could, and confirmed it removed the enemy links and that they were friendly after training. Can't be 100% sure because there are many moving parts.

My guess is one of the moving parts isn't acting like it should^^
If he wanted them to be untrainable, he would make them untrainable. Or harder to train. Or he'd disallow them from ever getting beyond "semi-wild"... but not label them as tame but have them behave like enemies   

[Garath]

sounds like a good point.

It's fun though