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Author Topic: Hearthstone TCG - And the card goes wild! Goodnight Doctor Boom.  (Read 159788 times)

frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #285 on: May 26, 2015, 03:57:13 pm »

Legendary 5 mana 0/10 totem that gives hero invincibility. Would see play 1-off in most control/midrange shaman decks but might spawn a wierdass fatigue shaman variant based around that plus vitality totems. Use Shaman's mad spells to remove the board like grinder mage, toss out large cards like Neptulon and Earth Ele's, and make your opponent run out of cards, then abuse invincibility to not lose in the fatigue wars.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #286 on: May 26, 2015, 06:03:50 pm »

Please tell me you aren't running totemic might. That is one of the 5 worst cards in the game, and a very close contended for single worst card.
Now I'm curious. What are these worst cards in the game?
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #287 on: May 26, 2015, 06:13:31 pm »

Majordomo Executus. The card that is so bad it'd be better if it was worse.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #288 on: May 26, 2015, 06:29:38 pm »

That's practically just a 0/10 taunt. Um, which seems to me to be pretty awful. Considering that shaman has such a weak late game, I don't think that dreams of a fatigue/grinder shaman are ever going to become reality. (Also I find the statement that a legendary would see being played as a one of a bit funny, accurate of course, but funny.)
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sambojin

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #289 on: May 26, 2015, 06:31:16 pm »

Shamans aren't bad, they're just not particularly reliable.

@Ironyowl. Totemic Might. It just is. It would be awesome as a 0/4 weapon for 1-2 mana that used charges to give the totems +2 health (ie: Give any totem summoned Battlecry: +2 health. Lose one charge from weapon each time this occurs.) or something similar. But right now, you need plenty of totems on board for it to have any use. You usually only have 2 totems max on board. Even with 3, it's a bad card. Those totems still do very little.

Shaman can control, face, midrange etc, or even combo a bit. I'll make up a bad example deck of my current concept (my last one wasn't horrible, but the meta has changed, and there's some amazing cards in other decks now).

I'll chuck together an early/mid zoo/control in a sec.

Laugh heartily, it's not that good (and requires a fair bit of dust and questing).
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frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #290 on: May 26, 2015, 06:46:36 pm »

Having flipped through every single card in the game, I can now say with certainty that Totemic Might is actually the worst. The only cards I can find that are even remotely close to as bad are Light's Justice, Silence, Headcrack, Kidnapper, Frost Shock, Stiltfin Spiritwalker, Corruption, Blood Imp, Bloodsail Corsair, Murloc Raider, Voodoo Doctor, Captain's Parrot, Frostwolf Grunt, Dalaran Mage, Hemet Nesingwary, Junkbot, Majordomo Executus, Nozdormu. Of those you can cut out like half on the principle of "I can conceive of some situation, somewhere, where it might be a desirable card to have" and can narrow my bottom 5 down to something like Totemic Might, Bloodsail Corsair, Corruption, Stiltfin Spiritwalker, Nozdormu.

NINJEDIT: Well, yes. The point would be to play it super lategame as a "I'm harder to kill now" button, which Shamans really need.
@Sambojin: That card would still be trash. Totems just aren't valuable enough to spend a card on. 0/1 mana cards have to have a disproportionately powerful effect to see reasonable play on anything except rush decks. A rush deck can't afford to expend mana on totems, never mind a card to buff the totems.
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Neonivek

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #291 on: May 26, 2015, 06:47:39 pm »

I can say that a few of those are "Not that bad" for specific builds.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #292 on: May 26, 2015, 06:53:31 pm »

Went ahead and tossed together my old "Fuck druids" aggro shaman deck and added in Fireguards since I haven't built it since before BRM for laughs.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@Neonivek: Please, pick a card a defend it. 10 points to Ravenclaw if you can.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #293 on: May 26, 2015, 06:59:25 pm »

I'd certainly not put Nozdormu in the bottom five. Yeah he's really bad. But at least unlike the other cards he's not a total non entity. You're not playing with a 29 card deck that at one point just fails to draw anything (which is practically how totemic might is). Even though he's not nearly good enough for nine mana, his body is big enough that something will happen, he will impact the game in some way that actually matters.

And no. Shamans really don't need a "I'm harder to kill button" For the late game. Not unless the whole class is radically changed. Shaman isn't a late game class and wasting a turn on a card that's only going to slow the game down and cost nothing for your opponent to remove isn't going help a class that is going to lose if it gets to that point anyway.

Edit: Wait, dust devil? That seems like a odd choice for a anti druid card. And a odd choice in general.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 07:01:08 pm by Criptfeind »
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Neonivek

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #294 on: May 26, 2015, 07:02:39 pm »

Voodoo Doctor is good specifically in Priest decks to try to build up your card count with another card.

That is it.

While Merlock Scout is only good in Shaman decks with that one Totem that gives things +2
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Dutchling

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #295 on: May 26, 2015, 07:03:51 pm »

The only cards I can find that are even remotely close to as bad are (...) Silence (...)
Silence was totally playable for a while, and might still be, simply because most Priest lists run 2 Pyromancers. Cheap spells are just very good combined with that card, and Silence IS a very powerful effect, even if you get it without a 2/1 or 4/3 creature.

And with "for a while" I mean up until I stopped watching HS streams. For all I know it's still run in Priest lists.

I would never call it a bad spell.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #296 on: May 26, 2015, 07:17:19 pm »

Noz is really bad. For an 8/8 body you should never be playing 8 mana, never mind 9 mana. The only 'giant' that you'd actually play at 8 mana is Ironbark Protector, and that's only in arena where any large taunt is good. Noz also comes with the downside of having a symmetrical effect that largely is pointless. The fact that it's 9 mana is a larger kick in the balls, because you can't play anything with it. You dedicate a late game turn to stopping, playing a gag card that does nothing when it hits the field and passing initiative to your opponent. Noz is fun, sure, but he's one of the worst cards in the game because of, ironically for a time dragon, how hard he shoots your tempo in the foot. A good test for any large card of quality is "Can I coin this out ever?" and coining out Nozdormu is actually hilariously bad.

Dust devil is in that for the same reason Magma Rager is. The deck is made to make druids sad and the only "good" answer they have to 1 health minions with relatively high attack is swipe. When you stack enough stuff that druid wants to hit with face, they run out of health.

Ninjedit: Voodoo doctor is a 1 mana 2/1 with a trash effect. If you want something else that heals in the healing class for shits and giggles, Priest has more than enough options that while not good, aren't that low quality.

Priest Silence is bad because it's A, on a class that really doesn't care about silencing stuff, and B it's a 0 mana card. The caveat of 0 mana spells is that they need to be worth a card. If you had a hero power that read the same text as a given 0 mana spell, that should be a rough gauge of how usable a 0 mana spell is. Silencing a minion alone isn't worth it because, at least as priest, there's very few things that you would want to silence that you don't have other, more flexible outs to. Silence would be really solid if it cost 1 and drew a card, but because it's basically "Discard a card" it's not worth running.
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sambojin

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #297 on: May 26, 2015, 07:19:15 pm »

Shaman concept deck. A random grab bag of bodies and things. A 0/7/8/7/5/3 mana curve, with nothing over 5 mana. Some questionable choices, very little combo, but just things that do stuff. Often gives the opponent an advantage.

Shifts up and down gears like a rally driver on crack, but if it gets rolling, it can roll well and at a good speed.

A bit of damage, control, taunt, and then big bodies.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Needs more card draw. Badly. Needs something better than the Sunfury Protector and one of the Earth Elementals as well. I just don't know what yet, if anything. Manatide totem would be great, but it's also a "dead card" in an early control-then-roll style deck. Azure Drakes are nice, but not for 5 mana. Everything else is probably too small of a body/option to think of using. Maybe a card drawer, but I'd just about throw a priestess in there instead. Pipping a 2 health minion up to three "can be" quite good, and more early options is always handy.

Don't know. But it needs more card draw, because it can stall, even if you just totem/draw for a few turns across the game.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 08:05:47 pm by sambojin »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #298 on: May 26, 2015, 08:05:37 pm »

That style's called zoo, I dunno how a zoo shaman would work though.  Usually you want a much much harder curve or you can end up tanking your advantage when big cards get removed.

My very ancient to-the-face zoolock was something along the lines of...


Pure face, running on the philosophy that if you have control of the board the impetus is on the opponent to make trades and the board leader should only be making trades when they prevent an extremely valuable trade from the enemy.

It doesn't work super well in the high tiers though since it violates some maxims.  Since it's pure yolo you more often than not give the opponent opportunities to come back; you should be conservative when winning and yolo when losing.  Also since you're never trading you allow your opponent to always make the best trades he can which, if things slow down, will incrementally cost you the game.
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sambojin

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Re: Hearthstone TCG - The Reign of Dr. Boom
« Reply #299 on: May 26, 2015, 08:15:13 pm »

Thus the big 3-5 mana bodies. It can face, or blow a fair few of your early minions for board control.

Each one is just a tool depending on matchup. Every card in the deck is really. It's not as necessarily rushy as pure zoo, it has some board control options as well. Not many, but it's not entirely mono tactics or insta-lose. But it'd better be doing something well early on, because there's very little combo-wombo in the deck (although there is some dumb stuff. Blowing two rockbiters on a zapomatic does do the face thing from suprising angles, especially when backed with some beef for following turns).

So not total zoo, but not exactly as reliable as total zoo either. Needs more card draw for that.

Quite nice against token decks etc, fails against lots of things though. Can win, might not. Can even snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at times, depending on which gear you're in on defense/control/rush at which time.

comment: "The Meta". Funnily enough, people tend to play around things like lightning storm, 2 hexes, even with some vague consideration towards unbound elementals/fire elementals and the "standard shaman". Which that deck doesn't have. When someone stalls themselves due to something you "obviously" have, then you just kicked their gearbox. So change gears. You've got reasonable bodies to put on board and some tools. Surprise is a meta-tool.
Although admittedly, you have to play to your deck's strength anyway. If you worry too much about what the opponent will do to you, you lose. So you can't necessarily always play around cards. But some things are so synonymous with Shaman, that largish things on board with reasonable early game/control, doesn't really cross people's minds. Totem Shaman you are not. Nor pure faceroll. I'd probably be able to play the deck (maybe with some modification) to about rank 7-10. Maybe higher.
ps. Still unsure about the protector or feral spirits. Both are awesome. But one of them might be that "something else" card. Probably draw. Don't know which though. Since this deck can be played a little slower, as long as some early game is done, maybe that would be where I slot a cult master or manatide. Still crunching numbers and possibilities.....
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 11:23:51 pm by sambojin »
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