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[Aramara Meibi]

how many times does it take offending and stealing from the elven caravans does it take to start a war with them?

is there any sort of alert, like, "you are now at war with the hippies!"?

[PaleBlueHammer]

iirc, it's currently impossible to start an actual war with the elves by killing them or stealing their goods.

You may be able to do it with FIXDIPLOMATS from dfhack.

[ShadowHammer]

iirc, it's currently impossible to start an actual war with the elves by killing them or stealing their goods.

You may be able to do it with FIXDIPLOMATS from dfhack.

Are you quite sure? I was under the impression you could. Well, I guess I'll have to kill some elves... in the name of SCIENCE!

Wait do you mean you can't start a war by killing them, or you can't start a war period?

[DeathOfRats]

As far as I understand it, there are no diplomats that can declare war, so no war period. FIXDIPLOMATS should correct that, but I haven't tested it myself.

[Aramara Meibi]

what if i'm playing v0.31.25?

and i'm on a mac, so dfhack isn't an option. the wiki seems to suggest it is possible, should i not trust the wiki?

[Garath]

Yes, it IS possible to start a war by killing caravans and even by constantly offering wooden bins to the elves or seizing goods etc. It is however not a very reliable method. It's been reported to happen the third time, but also not happening after 20, without any indication as to why the difference exists. Killing a diplomat is considered a much worse offence than merely raiding a caravan (in the case of elves, cutting too many trees is just as bad) and offers a much better and faster road to war. It also offers a way to end the war, which I'm not sure is possible without a diplomat.

[Aramara Meibi]

that begs the question, how many trees is too much? I'm playing on a smallish map, 3x3 i think. It's forested, deciduously, and I've got some soil layers dug out for subterranean lumber, but the growth rate hasn't been so quick as I would like. I HAVE been somewhat dependent on caravans for my lumber supply, but this fortress has grown comfortable and i'm trying to start up a new challenge. An elven war is something I haven't taken participation in. I think it's been around 10 offended traders and goods seizures in a row already.

I should probably finish up all my exterior fortifications before pressing the shining, candy-red button, but hey, i'm after a challenge right?

I'll continue down this path for a while, for all dwarves' sake.

[Garath]

you need to have the elven diplomat modded in for the tree quota. I think it defaults to 100, regardless of map size.

[Larix]

As i understand, tree quotas would be agreed upon when the elves took notice of your fort, and only exceeding an existing quota would actually hurt relationships with their civ. Pre-agreement logging didn't matter for riling up the elves. Elven diplomats haven't been part of the regular game since 40d or so.

If you don't enable diplomats for the elves, they won't give a shit how many trees you cut down. Generally, if you don't enable their diplomats, provoking them to hostilities is close to impossible. Usually, you can keep slaughtering their caravans for decades and they just don't care.

[Aramara Meibi]

blast