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Author Topic: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99  (Read 7661 times)

majikero

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2013, 04:04:01 pm »

About the Train Simulator thing, not everyone has the kind of space to keep them all. Just check the sheer amount of those DLC train and imagine them all in your basement and you have to maintain each and everyone of them and the time to assemble the tracks to simulate whatever route you want.
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BurnedToast

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2013, 05:53:41 pm »

having said that, Vote with your wallet. and don't support bad business. (even though others have already pointed out that bad DLC isn't targeted at those who think rationally) (exaggeration)

At this point, the DLC ship has sailed and it's too late to do anything about it - it's become normal and accepted and not enough people will boycott any game to make up for the extra $$$$ they get from DLC sales. Look at BF4 - not only is it (at best) an expansion pack for Bf3 being sold for $60 but they've got $60 worth of map packs on sale on day 1 and tons of garbage pay2win (in a multiplayer game!) unlock packs and nobody even really cared or mentioned it much.

Wait a year, buy the GOLD-GOTY uber platinum edition for $10 on sale and just pretend it all came together instead of being sold piecemeal, that's about all you can do.
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Tilla

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2013, 05:59:55 pm »

Couldn't they be working on the next thing? That seems like it would be sensible. And wouldn't on-disk DLC also need to go through quality assurance?
Sometimes the 'next thing' isn't ready to go into production or even decided on for a long while. It varies wildly.

The on-disk stuff is usually just art assets, you generally have to still download the executable code (and patches to any assets that needed changing).
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BFEL

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2013, 11:44:07 am »

I'm ok with the way XCOM has been doing it. Small scale DLC that doesn't add much other than some cosmetics and variety and a large full-scale expansion that adds a bunch of stuff to the game.

Now, I think their DLC was overpriced (which is why I waited until a major Steam sale to get Slingshot), but the core concept I'm fine with. You might enjoy the game more with the DLC (I love the customization options from the Elite Soldier Pack), but you're not missing actual pieces of the game without them. Now, I have stuff that I'd have rather had than what they gave us for Slingshot, like map packs or complete soldier language packs, but at least they've been trying to use DLC in a fairly ethical manner.

It was also nice to see Enemy Within show up as a proper expansion that actually changed the game and made it fresh again.

My only problem with XCOM in DLC terms is that Enemy Within, an expansion pack, was sold as a FULL GAME to people who played it on consoles. I am one of the people who bought and loved XCOM on the Xbox and supported them the whole way by buying the tiny insignificant DLC they released and then they screw me over by bundling that all together with new content, and I can't get that new content unless I buy all the things I bought AGAIN. Granted I did it of course because XCOM is awesome but fuck that stings Firaxis.

Dragons Dogma did the exact same thing, but I didn't buy that one because I can't even get through the normal game due to OMG ITS SO LONG. Seriously, its a good game, but the last thing I need in it is MORE quests.
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Vortex Rikers

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2013, 01:43:38 pm »

I no longer care or have any emotional investment in the 'Gaming Industry'. If I see blatant money sucking leeches like Battlefield 4, I simply don't purchase them. If I see bloody awesome games at a decent price like Starbound and Factorio, they'll be getting my money.
And when I see a real gem like people purchasing imaginary spaceships for a game that's still largely on paper, then reselling them for even more ludicrous amounts of money, I just laugh and carry on.

It's much easier and simpler when you take games for what they are, stop taking them seriously, and refuse to bend over and pay any price for the latest and greatest shiny triple A.
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UltraValican

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2013, 02:08:14 pm »

Disgaea been growing incredibly DLC ridden since it came to PS3.

Before coming to PS3, to unlock cameo characters you had to pass a bill and then fight a challenging map  to actually recruit the character.
After coming to PS3, you just a get a brief cut-scene with an easy as fuck battle and the characters yours.

In Disgaea 3, they changed Baal "the ultimate boss" into a mushroom reskin and made you pay DLC to get his actual skin back. The main game will have maybe 6 unlockable characters and  maybe 30 or so DLC characters.  Usually all of the DLC will end up costing more than the base game itsself( I think thats true for D3 and D4).

The outrageous part is that you'll sometimes end up paying for the same character with the same specials TWICE, and even worse some DLC characters are just fucking reskins of generic classes. Adell and Rozalin are examples of the former phenomenon. With Disgaea D2, players would have bought Adell and Rozalin 3 FUCKING TIMES NOW.

You also have to pay for new game modes and story modes.

The silliest part is that they actually PUNISH loyal fans for buying the game on realese since are starting to make vita ports of their PS3 games with ALL DLC included at the same price of the base game. Shit,  these vita port have more fucking content than the console version even with the DLC. And these ports are like a year apart from eachother. There is really zero incentive buy a Disgaea game at launch anymore.
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aristabulus

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2013, 05:31:37 pm »

Spoiler folds for vertical brevity.... I got wordy.  >_>

Except now DLC is pre-planned and dev'd and even ships on the disk. ...

Some of that is due to the nature of the production cycle. 

Anybody mentioned App Store games yet? Those games don't always have DLC, but they do have microtransactions for gold/energy/gems/whatever.

I don't think anyone is excluding mobile/casual microtransactions from the ire on the topic, but I do think that very few of us here play those much, or at all. 

I no longer care or have any emotional investment in the 'Gaming Industry'. ... (other wise things)

I'm right there with ya.  :)  It certainly helps that between solid free/open-source titles and reasonably priced indie titles, we don't have to put up with the bullshit that the AAA Games Industry tries to serve us.

-----

Speaking to the topic, whether DLC irritates me really depends on the details.
Ultimately, I think the trend of Bad DLC is really just a symptom of larger economic problems within the AAA industry. 
Those economic trends were already visible in 2000 when a handful of developers wrote the Scratchware Manifesto. (valid link in wiki page to read it) Those trends were getting worse in 2005 when Greg Costikyan revisited (part 1) (part 2) the ideas put forth in the Manifesto.  (he is the only developer that outed himself on contributing, afaik)

The good news?  Your typical indie team these days looks a lot like what was laid down in the Scratchware Manifesto...  ^_____^
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Graknorke

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2013, 05:38:49 pm »

many games becoming larger, more elaborate, and more expensive in serving an arms race of graphics/features that will see everyone out of business.
This, I think, is the problem. If games are costing so much that publishers need to push out DLC to make money... maybe they're just demanding too much spending on development? Especially when all of that money is about dredging up some minor graphical improvements on outdated hardware (see: console ports).
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Elephant Parade

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2013, 05:45:49 pm »

Quote
B12ers are too smart to fall for dirty pysch tricks gussied up as a game
Yeah, a lot of games are like that. Personally, I've never bought coins/gems/whatever; it seemed like a waste of money compared to buying a new game. Also, it just seems like cheating; wrecking progression in a game would ruin it for me. I have a friend who has spent an absurd amount of money on Zombie Farm, though.

Also, I still don't see how Candy Crush can make such a stupid amount of money.
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freeformschooler

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2013, 05:56:20 pm »

Also, I still don't see how Candy Crush can make such a stupid amount of money.

It is a testament to Bejeweled's popularity twelve years after creation.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2013, 06:08:39 pm »

To feed the casual game derail, I find it interesting how many people choose to play games on their phone rather than interacting with the people around them. I've seen groups of (apparently friends) sitting in circles and just playing these casual games in silence. I mean, I spend a lot of time gaming, but that just seems ridiculous to me. Whether these people will ever experience the TRUE GLORY OF PC GAMING is unlikely, so they aren't aware of just how exploitative and shallow those games are.
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Glloyd

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2013, 08:01:47 pm »

To feed the casual game derail, I find it interesting how many people choose to play games on their phone rather than interacting with the people around them. I've seen groups of (apparently friends) sitting in circles and just playing these casual games in silence. I mean, I spend a lot of time gaming, but that just seems ridiculous to me. Whether these people will ever experience the TRUE GLORY OF PC GAMING is unlikely, so they aren't aware of just how exploitative and shallow those games are.

Not a derail, the thread's for DLC as well as complaints about the direction the industry's going :P And yeah, I agree with you there. I know of instances where I've been hanging out with people, and they stare at their phone for long periods of time. Upon asking "what's up?" they say, "oh I'm playing (insert exploitative mobile game here). And don't even get me started on the disgusting amount of social media spam those games create. If I even get an invite to join someone in Candy Crush on Facebook, at this point I just unfriend them. It's pretty much paying to be a spambot, which disgusts me.

Another thing I've been noticing lately is "second screen integration". Again, to use that new Splinter Cell game my friend got as an example, it's only possible to 100 % the game by buying a mobile app and playing some shallow mobile game which somehow enhances your ingame experience. That's pretty much become the norm as well for "next gen" console games. Look at Watchdogs and The Division, both were(are? I don't know if they're out yet) marketed on the basis that they have a "second screen experience" to go along with the game. Of course, you need to shell out another $5 to have a complete game experience, but naturally, they don't focus on that.

BigD145

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2013, 08:44:30 pm »

Another thing I've been noticing lately is "second screen integration". Again, to use that new Splinter Cell game my friend got as an example, it's only possible to 100 % the game by buying a mobile app and playing some shallow mobile game which somehow enhances your ingame experience. That's pretty much become the norm as well for "next gen" console games. Look at Watchdogs and The Division, both were(are? I don't know if they're out yet) marketed on the basis that they have a "second screen experience" to go along with the game. Of course, you need to shell out another $5 to have a complete game experience, but naturally, they don't focus on that.

It's more like portable DLC. You still have to have the base game. They just want you 24/7 on their product. Brand loyalty.
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BFEL

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2013, 09:16:57 pm »

It's more like portable DLC. You still have to have the base game. They just want you 24/7 on their product. Brand loyalty.

:P "brand loyalty"

Right now the only game companies I have anything resembling trust or faith in are: Paradox, Bethesda, Firaxis.
And the moment they pull a Bioware they get blacklisted XD.

BTW I think Bioware is still salvageable, the next Dragon Age looks like it will be awesome, but they seem to have been on a campaign to kill my support of them since Mass Effect 2 so who knows?
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Mongol13524

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Re: DLC Woes and Complaints/The Future of the Gaming Industry - Now only $0.99
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2013, 09:31:48 pm »

Dwarf Fortress is terrible on DLC too. A single update costs as much as the base game.
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