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[NobodyPro]

Yes thanks, this is what I meant.  I'm normally really great at suspending disbelief, but this really ruined my first impression of New Vegas.  It was like a dozen individual alerts popping up while I was trying to listen to the old man, and no explanation of why the gangsters buried me with a freakin arsenal in my pockets.  I scrapped them too because I wanted the joy of adventuring for new weapons, but eventually gave up on New Vegas for other reasons.  I'd rather go back to DC.

Those starter packs work better when you only use one. I find it easier to believe that I was buried in Leather Armour instead of being stripped naked by either the Khans, Benny or Victor and having to wear an unexplained/very loosely justified Vault suit because tradition dictates I should.

I would honestly buy a DLC pack that was just Cut Content reintegrated into the game. There's so much.

[Glloyd]

My main issue with DLC is when modability is deliberately reduced to make way for more DLC. The newer Total War games have been somewhat guilty of this.

Yup. After Medieval 2 they cut that to the bone. That's because the modding community made Rome and Medieval 2 into some of the best games out there, and CA didn't like total conversions.

[Talvara]

My main issue with DLC is when modability is deliberately reduced to make way for more DLC. The newer Total War games have been somewhat guilty of this.

Yup. After Medieval 2 they cut that to the bone. That's because the modding community made Rome and Medieval 2 into some of the best games out there, and CA didn't like total conversions.

I hadn't considered this, but it rings very true to my ears.

-snip-

Lets not get all high and mighty. 

If you don't like DLC - Don't buy it.  It is however not new in any way shape or form.  That content that is in DLC would not have been in the game.  That Ranger DLC for metro; wasn't going to exist - people wanted it so they made it DLC and charged for it.  That horse armor wasn't going to exist.

Yeah some of it were concepts they originally wanted to include; but they ran out of money and couldn't do it.  DLC lets them provide support and more content for games.

If you don't like DLC - Don't Support it.  Don't buy it.  But its been around forever just under other names.

hmmm, nope.

I think many of us already think twice about buying something that came with a bunch of day one DLC or obviously is running a pretty dodgy business practice. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to talk about our observations and feelings of the situation. is having this talk going to change anything? I doubt it, but I know not having this talk isn't going to do much better.

I would also argue that the speech-pack was in a different time and environment, They likely didn't add it to the main game because of (floppy)disk size concerns. opting to leave it out and have a sell able game instead. Offering it as a cosmetic bonus for their hardcore fans.

from what I can tell size concerns are pretty much non existent these days. sure its nice if its compact and downloads fast. or if it fits on one dvd/blueray/whatever. but every service I can think of has been moving away from hard copies, (although to be fair, Bandwidth isn't free either)

having said that, Vote with your wallet. and don't support bad business. (even though others have already pointed out that bad DLC isn't targeted at those who think rationally) (exaggeration)

[DeKaFu]

Tokyo Jungle had kind of sketchy DLC in it. All the DLC was in the form of extra animals you could play as... all of which (save one...) you could encounter in the game from the very beginning. They were even all on the character select screen, where picking them prompts you to buy them.

Just to add insult to injury, given all the DLC was obviously already in the game, they were only made available for purchase staggered over the course of the few months following release. First for the Japanese version, then for the NA version, so it wasn't a development time thing. Also, the way the game's item unlocking system works means that you can't 100% your item collection without buying several of them.

I'm probably going to buy them all anyway because I love this game so much and want to support it (and have unlocked/used all 40 other animals) but it's still a bit cruddy.

[BigD145]

Isn't Tokyo Jungle $10-15 in the US and it was specifically priced low for people to give it a shot and if they wanted everything the price comes out to your average game price?

[Rilder]

My main issue with DLC is when modability is deliberately reduced to make way for more DLC. The newer Total War games have been somewhat guilty of this.

Yup. After Medieval 2 they cut that to the bone. That's because the modding community made Rome and Medieval 2 into some of the best games out there, and CA didn't like total conversions.

Worse part of it is how much they lied about it, when empire was released they claimed up, down, and to the left that "We'll get you guys modding tools soon, just be patient!" and never delivered. Hell only for that shitty Shogun 2 game did they even attempt to release modding tools and that was mainly for multiplayer maps, BECAUSE CLEARLY TOTAL WAR GAMES ARE ABOUT MULTIPLAYER.

[Glloyd]

My main issue with DLC is when modability is deliberately reduced to make way for more DLC. The newer Total War games have been somewhat guilty of this.

Yup. After Medieval 2 they cut that to the bone. That's because the modding community made Rome and Medieval 2 into some of the best games out there, and CA didn't like total conversions.

Worse part of it is how much they lied about it, when empire was released they claimed up, down, and to the left that "We'll get you guys modding tools soon, just be patient!" and never delivered. Hell only for that shitty Shogun 2 game did they even attempt to release modding tools and that was mainly for multiplayer maps, BECAUSE CLEARLY TOTAL WAR GAMES ARE ABOUT MULTIPLAYER.

Yeah, IMO Rome 1 with Europa Barbareum or Rome: Total Realism is a way better game than Rome 2, and Medieval 2 with Third Age Total War and the MOS expansion for that? Basically better than any game CA has put out. Those mods are the reason so many people still play those games, and CA cutting that functionality out so they could sell their own shitty DLC is such a terrible thing.

[Graknorke]

If you want dodgy DLC, look at train simulator. Endless minor model modifications and so on. That sort of thing, under sensible circumstances, would be up to modders. But if the developers can charge for it, why not right? And the fact that they expect a single train to be worth twelve pounds is staggering.

EDIT: Over £2000 of DLC in total. It's absurd. But there's probably people who will buy it.

[nenjin]

If you want dodgy DLC, look at train simulator. Endless minor model modifications and so on. That sort of thing, under sensible circumstances, would be up to modders. But if the developers can charge for it, why not right? And the fact that they expect a single train to be worth twelve pounds is staggering.

EDIT: Over £2000 of DLC in total. It's absurd. But there's probably people who will buy it.

Maybe they envisioned their game like actual model train sets used to work; those things easily cost $10 a piece and a complete model train set could run you hundreds of dollars.

Of course, they were physical goods created by artisans. These are digital good made by artists.

[Mongol13524]

Train Simulator isn't for regular games. The kind of person that plays that is a train enthusiast, and train enthusiasts want very specific trains and routes that they love in the game. In order to make the staggeringly diverse content their customers demand for a small market of enthusiasts, they have to charge a premium.

The content in the base game is enough to satisfy anybody who wouldn't want to pay for the DLC.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

One thing to note about the train simulator series is that buying a train model entitles you to that train model released in all future versions of the game (at least that's how it was when I checked ages ago).
While it's still ridiculous prices and I don't see how a digital train simulator could ever compete with collecting and building your own physical model collection, it's still largely cheaper than buying models and might be an alternative to some hobbyists.

[Tilla]

There is one important factor of DLC that gets overlooked a lot: designers would be laid off between projects if not working on extra content after their core work is done. Artists, writers and stuff get done months before the game is polished enough to release generally. So some level of DLC is probably necessary in this age of shrinking budgetary margins. Some is definitely gross but it's something to keep in mind. Even on-disk DLC can be stuff that people worked on AFTER all their work was done on the core game, due to the length of time it takes to QA and certify a game for final release.

[Vattic]

I don't see how a digital train simulator could ever compete with collecting and building your own physical model collection, it's still largely cheaper than buying models and might be an alternative to some hobbyists.

I'd imagine space is a big factor.

[Graknorke]

One thing to note about the train simulator series is that buying a train model entitles you to that train model released in all future versions of the game (at least that's how it was when I checked ages ago).

Oh, I didn't know the DLC carried over. Still kind of ridiculous, but I'll let it go.

There is one important factor of DLC that gets overlooked a lot: designers would be laid off between projects if not working on extra content after their core work is done. Artists, writers and stuff get done months before the game is polished enough to release generally. So some level of DLC is probably necessary in this age of shrinking budgetary margins. Some is definitely gross but it's something to keep in mind. Even on-disk DLC can be stuff that people worked on AFTER all their work was done on the core game, due to the length of time it takes to QA and certify a game for final release.

Couldn't they be working on the next thing? That seems like it would be sensible. And wouldn't on-disk DLC also need to go through quality assurance?

[BigD145]

People are still laid off. DLC are small affairs that need a minimum of staff to produce. If you need a lot of staff it's not DLC, it's an expansion.