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Author Topic: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?  (Read 8938 times)

Glloyd

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2013, 01:06:34 pm »

The first three Elder Scrolls games: Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind. Arena is pretty forgiving if you've played old-school RPGs before, but Daggerfall will wipe the floor with you unless you build a good character and Morrowind is just a huge world with a ton of unique content.

So true. It has been way too long since I've actually played Daggerfall, but back when I used to play it I would spend hours just crawling through a single dungeon, getting killed every couple minutes.

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2013, 01:23:55 pm »

I'm just gonna put out there that a game taking a long time to finish isn't the same thing as a game that reveals its rewards over many playthroughs. Of course there's a point when the game stops surprising. But let me make the comparison to a book.

When you read a book you read all the words and when you get to the end you might think about the book. But perhaps going back and rereading it from a different mindset or after experiencing some other insight will make you notice awesome things about the book that you didn't appreciate the first time. The best books stand up to several readings.

If you play a roguelike, you're playing a different experience every time but it's build out of the same blocks. Once you've experienced all of those blocks - which may take a while - you start to recognize everything but you may be delighted by how those parts are presented. You begin to replay with knowledge of what's probably coming, hoping for certain outcomes, enjoying that gameplay environment. The game is still offering entertainment and the occasional surprise or delight.

Replaying games like Civilization is similar - every game has a new map and a different distribution of resources. It would be cool to see a Civ game within a specific tech period that randomized which tech advances were available! At the start of the game it decides what the tech tree will be but you always have the same "theoretical tech tree" to work off of. You'd have to hope that your research would pan out, because in that world maybe nobody ever develops Optics or The Wheel. It would be hard to do this with a game like Civilization that spans multiple tech periods because losing an early tech will frequently make later techs impossible. There could be hints as to which techs can exist based on stuff you find, or maybe research requires the same resources you will use to take advantage of that tech, so if the resource is lacking it'll not only be hard to research but once you have it you won't be able to exploit it. Point is, make it less predictable. Maybe that world has no uranium, maybe it has too much! But I don't think that's what Civilization is trying to do.

I think the games that reward repeated or deep play have other things in common. You'll probably feel like you're not just getting better at them, not just learning more about them, but really digging your toes in and experiencing them. At the end of the game you probably feel relieved, satisfied, and above all that you want to play again someday. Maybe you want to play again immediately! But with the expectation that it's not going to just be the same game.

I'll use Tetris as a counter-example. Clearly you can get better at it, and there are high tiers of player skill, and it can be enjoyable, and you can want to play again immediately. But every single game is going to be virtually the same. This type of arcade game - Bejeweled, Asteroids, Space Invaders, etc. - isn't what I'm talking about. They can be enjoyable and have value in our culture but they don't provide fresh insights and surprises. Even roguelikes run dry at some point.

As another example of games that reward deep and repeated play: fighting games. Especially ones with complex interactions between moves of different characters, blocking and countering, powering-up, affecting the arena. And only ones that offer dozens of playable characters, which makes for a very large variety of matchups. I think this is why MOBAs are so popular. Of course these aren't exactly single-player games; even if the AI is good you'll probably begin to get good at fighting it, and play against other humans is more enjoyable and enriching.

However, I don't think typical FPS games do this. Yes you have the matchups between different classes, and objectives on the field. But generally there are only a few classes or weapons and many operate similarly. You compete against other players and cooperate with the players on your team, but there are generally few counters to other players. One example would be an anti-tank mine that you place to protect an area from vehicles, but which is relatively useless against infantry which might attack you. Shooting your gun to drop someone isn't a specific counter: it's just operating your gun. It's a basic attack. As such you're less interested in what the other player is doing and more with your own status: how alone are you, are you well-supplied, are you injured. Like a MOBA, there is teamwork and picking your fights, and in addition there is the strategy of organizing a large number of teammates across a large area such as in Battlefield 1942.

I think a richer environment, lots of things to play with, lots of randomized objectives, and plenty of surprises are important for this type of game. But like a good book, if the story reveals new things every time you play it, that helps too.
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Singularity125

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2013, 02:10:14 pm »

If you're willing to include post-game stuff, and are willing to put up with grinding, then the Disgaea series has a pretty long shelf life. Even ignoring post-game it takes probably 40-50 hours to get through the main story of each game. Then there's the leveling and general continuous improvement of your favorite characters... which really only ends when you want it to.
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Zangi

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2013, 02:18:38 pm »

Monster Hunter, but it is more fun with friends.
Aurora, that spreadsheet space game.
Total Extreme Wrestling (Or I guess any other sports managing sim...)
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Sergarr

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2013, 02:39:15 pm »

Heroes of might and magic 3.
So... many... maps...
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2013, 05:16:46 pm »

However, I don't think typical FPS games do this. Yes you have the matchups between different classes, and objectives on the field. But generally there are only a few classes or weapons and many operate similarly. You compete against other players and cooperate with the players on your team, but there are generally few counters to other players. One example would be an anti-tank mine that you place to protect an area from vehicles, but which is relatively useless against infantry which might attack you. Shooting your gun to drop someone isn't a specific counter: it's just operating your gun. It's a basic attack. As such you're less interested in what the other player is doing and more with your own status: how alone are you, are you well-supplied, are you injured. Like a MOBA, there is teamwork and picking your fights, and in addition there is the strategy of organizing a large number of teammates across a large area such as in Battlefield 1942.

I'd have to agree, it's a shame the way FPS games have been going. The main intricacy of a (good) FPS is being able to read other player's actions accurately enough to instantly react or attack optimally, which most games don't allow for anymore in a significant capacity. I think many people like to distinguish skill from knowledge/experience, and think of an FPS as dominated by skill whereas something like a strategy game is dominated by knowledge, but really they're not very different. The casual type of FPS that's become insanely popular with CoD and its clones is mechanically too simplistic to allow for any of this growth of experience... when the core gameplay consists of wandering around spraying at people with automatic weapons, you might as well be playing against bots.
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Rilder

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2013, 05:31:57 pm »

Amongst various other things already said...

Simulators in general...

Silent Hunter 3/4, IL-2 1946, Euro Truck Simulator, hell even Farming Simulators are all massive time sinks when you get into them.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2013, 05:57:07 pm »

I want to run an online farming sim company that will actually send you physical packets of seeds if you achieve objectives in the game. The endgame is actually growing turnips or whatever IRL.
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Doomblade187

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2013, 07:12:53 pm »

I know someone's said something like this above, but they didn't actually give a name. I think. Anyway, I nominate League of Legends. I've tarted playing not too long ago, but already there are so many layers of strategy present that it makes it extremely intriguing.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2013, 07:26:25 pm »

This reimagination of TETRIS.
http://www.pown.it/3562
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Rilder

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2013, 07:43:14 pm »

I want to run an online farming sim company that will actually send you physical packets of seeds if you achieve objectives in the game. The endgame is actually growing turnips or whatever IRL.

I feel like one would be better off just buying a few packets of seeds for like 10USD and then selling the produce they grow to buy Farming Simulator.
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itisnotlogical

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2013, 07:43:16 pm »

snip
snip

One of the many, many things I love about Perfect Dark is that it reveals more of itself the better you are at the game. Some of the rewards are hidden at first, but then you notice it and say "Hey, that's neat." Like finding out that defeating certain enemies nonlethally gets you a crossbow, or that doing something in the level before gives you the opportunity for a better weapon in the next one.

And then there's the brilliant move of changing the objectives depending on the difficulty setting, which I haven't seen in any game (other than Goldeneye). For playing on Special Agent, your reward is that you get a deeper, more exciting experience than playing on just Agent. And of course there's the bonus levels after beating the campaign on each difficulty, and all the content that's tucked slightly out-of-the-way in the 'hub' area, Carrington Institute.

I wish more games would reward you by letting you play more of the game, instead of just giving you a shiny badge for your online profile.
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Korbac

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2013, 09:22:26 pm »

If you're willing to include post-game stuff, and are willing to put up with grinding, then the Disgaea series has a pretty long shelf life. Even ignoring post-game it takes probably 40-50 hours to get through the main story of each game. Then there's the leveling and general continuous improvement of your favorite characters... which really only ends when you want it to.

Disgaea DS took me about 65 hours to beat. I was mad coz I'm bad, but that was a fun game. Not sure I can be bothered to take my lvl 100 characters to lvl 3000 or so to beat the last boss though.
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Aichuk

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2013, 11:59:50 pm »

If you guys want a deep FPS, play SWAT 4. It takes tactics, you die after a few bullets, and there are lots of options. You're also a cop so you can't just go ahead and shoot, you have to warn them first, and then if they resist, you get bonus points for non-lethal ways to capture them.

There's hostage handling, ordering around your fellow cops (red team, breach and bang, blue team, cover that area) and you can even make your own levels or mod the game with SDK. And if you want to finish every level on 100% on hard difficulty, it will take some time. I recommend it to anyone looking for a much more slower paced tactical FPS or someone who's childhood dream was to be a police officer.
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shovelmonkey

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Re: Most Time-Comsuming Single Player Games?
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2013, 12:45:49 am »

Crusader Kings II. Approaching the 2000 hour mark according to steam. Easily the most time I've ever put into any single game.
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