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[Walkaboutout]

Watcha guys think? An addy shield, or an artifact buckler (made of goblin bone no less!)? Shields are always better, but I got a strange mood and he made a goblin bone buckler (bucklers were on his favorite list, so thats what he made). I know the wiki info, shields are always superior and have more coverage, but I also know that material for shields is otherwise meaningless. Artifact shields are always superior no matter the material, except for concerns of weight and/or shield bashing. I'm not worried about the shield bash effectiveness here, so the lighter the better. Hence we come to my dilemma. An addy shield, or an artifact (goblin!) bone buckler.

[Sergarr]

You can always equip both dwarfs with them. I doubt they will kill anyone with shield-bashing anyway, so that doesn't matter.

[WoobMonkey]

Depends.  Is this for a melee fighter, or a marksdorf?

[Button]

The choice should be between artifact bone buckler, and leather shield, IMO. Leather is light, effective, and won't use up any of your limited candy supply.

I would guess that a dwarf with a low block skill would probably benefit more from the shield (better passive coverage), while a dwarf with a high block skill would probably benefit more from the buckler (better blocking). But  that's just a guess - I don't have any science for it.

[Girlinhat]

Have one dwarf equip both.

[Walkaboutout]

Thanks all for the thoughts. I have only a very limited military up and running, so I have flexability as to the type of dwarf I put it on. That is to say, it could go to either a marksdwarf or a melee dwarf. It seems like maybe I'd want to put it on the marksdwarf, if that's the only question that I need to answer, right?

I agree on the skill thing. I think that if I have a high skill shield user (which would have to be trained up in combat in the future once my military materializes), the artifact would be better as his/her raw block skill, plus the bonus from the artifact quality, would make up for any lesser coverage. Yes, that's anecdotal, without actual science behind it.

Also, yeah, in the end it's not that deep of a question because I'll end up with, say, 10 dwarves, one with an artifact bone buckler, and 9 with candy shields, or 10 with candy shields. Just for fun's sake, I should probably just throw the buckler in there, and leave it at that. Figure that if it is inferior to a candy shield, it's probably not inferior by much. I guess I was just curious as to which one ends up being more effective, which can really only be determined through usage and observation I suppose.

Thanks again though for your thoughts so far

(EDIT: What would happen of I did equip a dwarf with both? I've heard that talked about before, but I've never done it. They'd both be light, so the dwarf wouldn't be a killing machine but...I guess he'd be one hell of a meat shield wouldn't he?)

[mahrgell]

question remains why you would ever make candy shields...
leather all the way...

[Girlinhat]

Dwarves with two shields will block about twice as often.  Effectively, every attack incoming has to penetrate through every shield's block chance, then penetrate the armor.

[Walkaboutout]

question remains why you would ever make candy shields...
leather all the way...

Would they be burnable? Say, by dragon fire? I seem to recall reading that they block and don't burn regardless of material, but now that I'm thinking on it, I'm not sure at all and can't remember. I always end up making metal shields normally, so my own experience doesn't cover that. Of course, if they do, then making them from fire/magma proof leather would be awesome...what is it, Fire Imp skin? Dragon skin? That's otherwise magma safe?

Thanks Girl for clarifying the double shield question for me, I figured that would be the case, and now I really want to see that setup in action on a military dorf .

[Girlinhat]

Previously, dragonfire was a special attack type, hardcoded and simply referenced in the raws.  It was unique in that it could melt ANYTHING because it was not actually fire, but a unique type of attack, but because it was an attack, a wooden shield could block it effortlessly.

Creature attacks were modified after this though, such as the way that Giant Cave Spiders no longer need a path to web a creature.  I haven't personally seen any science on it.

[Zivilin]

The choice should be between artifact bone buckler, and leather shield, IMO. Leather is light, effective, and won't use up any of your limited candy supply.

I would guess that a dwarf with a low block skill would probably benefit more from the shield (better passive coverage), while a dwarf with a high block skill would probably benefit more from the buckler (better blocking). But  that's just a guess - I don't have any science for it.

I'm working on a small study on shielding which shall hopefully produce some hard empirical data on what factors significantly affect block chance, and how strong the effect is. I was wondering, why exactly does a buckler have better blocking than a shield? Looking at the raws at least, the shield appears to be superior to the buckler in every regard.

Also, I completely forgot about dual-wielding shields, but now I'm definitely including it as a variable.

[Girlinhat]

Bucklers are not better than shields.  But if you have a very high Blocking skill, you can compensate for the worse equipment with good skills.  You'd still be better with high skill and a shield.

[Walkaboutout]

The choice should be between artifact bone buckler, and leather shield, IMO. Leather is light, effective, and won't use up any of your limited candy supply.

I would guess that a dwarf with a low block skill would probably benefit more from the shield (better passive coverage), while a dwarf with a high block skill would probably benefit more from the buckler (better blocking). But  that's just a guess - I don't have any science for it.

I'm working on a small study on shielding which shall hopefully produce some hard empirical data on what factors significantly affect block chance, and how strong the effect is. I was wondering, why exactly does a buckler have better blocking than a shield? Looking at the raws at least, the shield appears to be superior to the buckler in every regard.

Also, I completely forgot about dual-wielding shields, but now I'm definitely including it as a variable.

Basically what Girl said. Also, in this case, we're discussing too the block bonus that you get for the buckler being an artifact, compared to a non-artifact-bonus shield.

[KingBacon]

Ya, but a masterwork wooden shield is better. 2*.20 > 3*.1

I prefer to equip all my melee dorfs with bronze shields, since it is the heaviest armor grade metal. I've had dorfs get pages of kills with a shield....

[Walkaboutout]

Ya, but a masterwork wooden shield is better. 2*.20 > 3*.1

I prefer to equip all my melee dorfs with bronze shields, since it is the heaviest armor grade metal. I've had dorfs get pages of kills with a shield....

Oo, this sounds like good info, where did you get the numbers King? I know 2 is masterwork bonus, and 3 the artifact bonus on armor, but the .2 and .1? Wassat from? Thanks in advance