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Author Topic: Exploits and honor  (Read 3963 times)

ShadowHammer

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2013, 09:13:07 pm »

Honor is for elves.
Are... Are you... This is blasphemy! What are you, some kind of kobold!? ELVES, HAVING HONOR, AND DWARVES NOT!?!?

Actually, considering the behavior of hammerers, Counts/countesses, brokers being met with steel-clad psychopaths... doublestrafe may be on to something, here.
Hmmm... You may have a point... However, I always play with honor, especially if some diplomat... insults my courage/bravery, and therefore must be executed, to uphold my honor.
Sure, the game might not tell you when the diplomats are insulting you, but I know that they are...
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Sutremaine

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2013, 09:17:40 pm »

I could alternitively dump them down a shaft to the magma sea but that wont get rid of magma safe items.
Stuff that's dumped into the magma sea (ie. onto a Magma Flow tile above SMR), will vanish even if it's magma-safe.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

SixOfSpades

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2013, 11:13:39 pm »

I'm fine with using exploits if it's in order to counteract some stupid limitation. I can't tell my dwarves to throw their trash off the edge of the map? Fine, atom-smashing it is, then. I can't tell my dwarves to fight back without tabbing through 14 screens, and even then they can't manage to buckle on greaves over their chainmail leggings? Fine, I'll just spam cage traps until I figure out the frickin' military. Etc.

I doubt there will ever be justification for quantum stockiles, water reactors, using drawbridges as weapons, or the effectiveness of danger rooms/item dropping, though. I also insist on realistic constructions: All load-bearing walls must be built on top of bedrock instead of dirt, no digging out areas large enough to collapse without leaving support columns, etc.
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klefenz

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2013, 11:49:34 pm »

Thats certainly an exploit i forgot about, digging out sand layers.

Antalia

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2013, 08:31:33 am »

As a rule I don't do anything that's going to make me glare. As soon as it'll make me glare, I put it out of my mind as an option. Sometimes even non-exploity things make the glare list. It can change from game to game.

Not sure if it's an exploit, but I do it:
  • I've been known to cause cave-ins in hopes of generating a random tile of sand on maps with no sand. Pretty sure this is naughty.
  • I always cave in aquifers if I can. Feels unintended...
  • I spam quantum stockpiles. I think quantum stockpiles are probably intended, but something about them bothers me. I have 1x1 stockpiles and a complex minecart delivery system for nearly everything, after DF2012. Not really having to deal with my items kind of dampened the fun for me, I suppose.
Will not! :
  • Sometimes I've refused to pump through an aquifer, because constantly un-suspending the labor leads to grumbling. (Not sure if it's an exploit, but anything that repetitive has a certain "unintended" feel.)
  • I usually avoid atom-smashing, after a traumatic incident of atom-smashing gone wrong. Unwanted items/animals/dwarves are disposed of by fire or other means.
  • I don't use danger rooms. The first time I read about a danger room, I giggled. Eventually I was glaring really hard at my newbie-turned-elite soldier, though. I've trained up all my soldiers the hard way since.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2013, 10:17:23 am »

even then they can't manage to buckle on greaves over their chainmail leggings? Fine, I'll just spam cage traps until I figure out the frickin' military. Etc.
Leggings and greaves are both [SHAPED], and you can only have one 'shaped' item per bodypart. You'l need to edit the raws yourself if you want both greaves and leggings on the same dwarf.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

VerdantSF

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 01:56:34 pm »

No danger rooms for me and I try to keep a surface path open into the fort.  I usually keep the entrances to the caverns closed off, though.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:11:52 am by VerdantSF »
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Bihlbo

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2013, 07:27:57 pm »

I sometimes take advantage of quantum stockpiles, though usually I burn through the stone fast enough making blocks that I don't need to use them for stone. More often than not the only QS I need is for meat after fighting off an invasion of delicious animal-mounted goblins. There's a good reason to have 6 butcher shops and 20 butchers in those circumstances. I fully take advantage of "cages of holding" - every kitten, puppy, and chick goes straight into the same cage in my meeting area. I also take advantage of "building destroyers can't destroy something overhead", though that isn't much of an exploit. After all, safe access to water outside of an aquifer would be nearly impossible without that. It only feels like an exploit when I have a dozen watchposts scattered around - trolls are apparently no match for a glass window.

For honor I usually do not: use danger rooms, make water reactors, use more than a dozen cage traps (overkill for a minotaur, not even close to enough for a siege), or make infinite metal via the coin-smelting exploit.

I try to avoid infinite water in adventure mode with the "fill from the puddle I just made" trick. Basically, I make an exception only if my adventurer would be forced to drink his own piss. But, a dozen shields? Yes, please.
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WoobMonkey

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2013, 07:31:46 pm »

I don't understand: why do so many players feel that water reactors are exploits?  To me, they represent the pinnacle of dwarfen engineering.

Not intending to knock anyone's choices, here: I'd really like to know.
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Aslandus

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2013, 10:00:50 pm »

I can't tell my dwarves to throw their trash off the edge of the map?
Technically you would be piling it up directly into a different region, if we're getting into "stupid limitations"
I haven't really been playing long enough to develop any qualms about exploits...

Finn

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 02:19:08 am »

I don't understand: why do so many players feel that water reactors are exploits?  To me, they represent the pinnacle of dwarfen engineering.

Not intending to knock anyone's choices, here: I'd really like to know.

I'm with Woob on this.  It never occurred to me that it might be exploity.
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SkyRender

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2013, 02:36:53 am »

 I knew some day my discovery of the absurd value of trap components would emerge under the heading of "exploit"...  Though really, they're hardly the only economy breakers.  Ever tried building your fortress wealth on solid gold wheelbarrows?  It may be a long shot from the profits you rake from large, steel serrated discs, but it's still quite respectable and quick.

 With Dwarf Fortress, it's less a question of what exploits you don't use as it is a question of which ones you do use to tailor the experience to suit your interests.
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Myrkky100

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2013, 07:06:05 am »

I've never bothered to learn quantum stockpiling and don't use atomsmashing, the traders just always leave with a huge amount of crap.

Since my current goal is to have a long lasting and fairly easy to maintain fortress so I can learn the ins and outs of the military system and maybe more high level engineering, I do use:

- A drwawbridge gate
- A trap corridor filled with cages

But I think that's about it. No
- trading or resource exploits
- "wagons only" ramp systems
- danger rooms
- no building or digging I don't think could ever realistically work (and I argue a statue garden on crystal glass lens built inside the mouth of a volcano can work since it has silver supports in it)

But again, it's all about what kind of a challenge you set for each fortress. DF is in essence a sandbox (albeit one filled with sharp, pointy things).
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Dwarf4Explosives

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2013, 11:53:04 am »

I don't understand: why do so many players feel that water reactors are exploits?  To me, they represent the pinnacle of dwarfen engineering.

Not intending to knock anyone's choices, here: I'd really like to know.

I'm with Woob on this.  It never occurred to me that it might be exploity.

I think it's because it's counterintuitive to the local physics, although that doesn't explain why people assume it's against the physics of the dwarven world(s).
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Urist MacNoob

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Re: Exploits and honor
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2013, 01:28:00 pm »

I don't even know how to do most of the exploits. If I did, I would do a danger room without batting an eyelash.

I'd also probably form a death squad of vampires that have trained to legendary on prisoners, but I don't really consider either of those exploits.

But martial honor is something that I understand and believe dwarves would have.
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