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[neblime]

I wasn't able to check the forums daily for some time and I come back to this...
So much to read .-.

Haha, good luck, although it does worry me that new people will be less keen to sign up.  A multitude of low influence PCs as a voting body would be nice

[Cain12]

I wasn't able to check the forums daily for some time and I come back to this...
So much to read .-.

Haha, good luck, although it does worry me that new people will be less keen to sign up.  A multitude of low influence PCs as a voting body would be nice

Well that is what the yearly updates on the op were probably meant for.

[kero42]

I wasn't able to check the forums daily for some time and I come back to this...
So much to read .-.

lol, good luck catching up. It's mostly made up of law spats (gosh, that grave fiasco), designs for buildings, some poorly written IC melodrama on my part, decision to introduce the idea of playable Divines, the suggestion we move to the community games section, an inconvenient but genuine accident or two, and all sorts of talk and plans over the PM system that unsubtly controlled our actions.
Seriously, I hope your not too far behind because reading through all of that will be a pain.

Haha, good luck, although it does worry me that new people will be less keen to sign up.  A multitude of low influence PCs as a voting body would be nice

We could do with new players, would encourage me to step up my rp, with actual peasants to abuse the fundamental rights of   manipulate to my families ends govern over in a fair and considerate manner. On the other hand, I have difficulty keeping up with who's who already, and my holidays end in a few days. Still glad that this thread has slowed down a bit though.

[Hahayeah]

Wow, This thread is now at the 3rd page cause of us not writing almost anymore. I'm taking it back to 1st page.

[Cain12]

Wow, This thread is now at the 3rd page cause of us not writing almost anymore. I'm taking it back to 1st page.

Sorry been busy, back at school, only 65 days left (lots of emphasis on that part during the weekly talking too btw). Prelims, Real exams, finding out what to do next, the works you know? So going to be busy, will still have time to play (probably won't even notice a difference) but it will come second to studying.

Plus Cain is in hospital and finished all his "plots", he but awaits for what happened down there to be questioned by someone (come on Kero, Kerod would insist on a proper hearing or at least call for people to say what they know, for the sake of knowing who to blame if nothing else) or for his back to recover.

[kero42]

Wow, This thread is now at the 3rd page cause of us not writing almost anymore. I'm taking it back to 1st page.

OOC: Firstly, I feel obligated to remind you that bumping a thread back to the first page just because is rather bad form.
Secondly, I would like apologise for my lack of attention here. I have been rather busy (gosh, it feels like I was never on holiday in the first place), but I suppose it's not too much to ask for me to check back once or twice a day.

Plus Cain is in hospital and finished all his "plots", he but awaits for what happened down there to be questioned by someone (come on Kero, Kerod would insist on a proper hearing or at least call for people to say what they know, for the sake of knowing who to blame if nothing else) or for his back to recover.

Okay then, here it goes:

IC: I hereby call for a meeting, regarding this recent incident. I have brooded on it to a great extent, and now believe myself capable of discussing it in a neutral setting. As ... horrible as Iden's passing was, it is in part my duty to ensure this never happens again. So here we are. We should discuss the following:

What happened,
Why it happened,
What you suggest we do to ensure it doesn't happen again,
And any other issues regarding the incident.

Obviously, Coldbones, who was with Iden right before she died, will have to attend. Should Cain be able to get to the meeting despite his injuries, then he will be able to weigh in on this. As I will admit a personal interest in this series of events, I require no one else attend if they do not wish to do so, as you surely have important matters of your own.

OOC: There, the topic is now breached. Now we can finish this (probably should have wrapped it up two days ago), then I should hope we can move on to the more practical matter of the forts running. How goes the industry set up? We designed a clay workshop right? Any practical, non-roleplay concerns that need a weigh in?

[ColdBones]

IC

I agree, a meeting between us three should take place.  Either in a private or public forum, I'll leave that decision to you Kerod.

[kero42]

IC

I agree, a meeting between us three should take place.  Either in a private or public forum, I'll leave that decision to you Kerod.

OOC: Eh, I suppose either is fine, a short public testimony should be all we need to get this done, but if you would prefer private then you could do that. I cant post/read messages again until later today, so this could take a bit.

[TeleDwarf]

So, I see that you guys are getting bored, so a little non-game, but more FAQ update:

On reports timing:
The intent was to go a game period per week, where period is a year, half year or even one season, depending on fps, inspiration, game time and other things. It is a bit harder to play and write about it then just to play.
Not all is going as planned though. Various family commitments, job, and general frustration of a new role as a GM is interfering with original intentions and slow us down. Also winter holidays. As you might know - some countries still celebrate using Julian calendar, so we have Xmas in Jan.

I am sure we will nonetheless overcome all of this and will eventually get a steady progress.

On thread move:
There are basically two issues:
1. The thread is currently in a wrong forum, so some people, willing to RP, may not find it.
2. The thread is ill-managed and important information in it is interlaced with mud general chit-chat.
While first concern can be fixed by starting thread in a different forum(that with AARs and community games), the second one will need to be more carefully inspected: we might need to create several threads in that forum to host different kinds of discussions. so that character sheets are not mixed with political debates and buildings design discussions are kept separated from military drill plans(loadouts, schedules, patrol routes, etc...).
We may even move some info into a more suitable media, like wiki. There are a number of free wikis for such use, like wikia.
So it may be like several discussion threads and one descriptive thread in proper forum + an interlinked wiki with more static info(laws, positions, character sheets, approved designs and same such).

On the unfortunate deaths we had so far:
I noticed that people are not entirely happy about the mortality of the dwarves, especially mentionables. While it is a central part of DF gameplay, I was still forced to think about how to minimize this unfortunate incidents.
So the main reason for three mentionable deaths we had so far (five, if we are to count Cain's relatives) was a lack of attention to the details or ignorance about various little bugs and ambiguities of the DF:
1. it is unsafe to dig aquifers openly in winter, as dwarves can decide to step into the hole just before it gets some water and freeze. (Cain's wife)
2. It is unsafe to let children outside ever. (Cain's son)
3. Dwarves decide whether to replace a clothing item with an armor basing on it's value and apparently iron armor is not more valuable then silk. (Urist McDwarf. That is basically the only explanation why senators were so ill-equipped despite long-standing order to use metal armor, partial match, over clothes.)
4. Dwarves can decide to path through a waterfall (it sometimes becomes 1/7 or 2/7 for a very brief time. I guess that is how Lemonpie got flushed. No idea how to fix that. Hunting burrows, ramps digging in key points and not using hunters are our options)
5. We need some kind of a plan to breach the multilevel aquifer with a wide-enough hole. Doing is in an haphazard way is not good enough option. (Iden, Cain's injury.)
So we basically need a knowledge base; IC and OOC instructions. Just saying "let someone else risk their lives" is not a good enough option (yes Kerod, I am looking at you. Military is actually the safest place to be, statistically speaking.). If you want reasonable security for your dwarves - you will have to do research for the project and commit valuable advice in timely manner. Advice that is both good and is easy to follow. Or you can get some overseer power to do the project first hand(get a save and do the task yourself). Instructions are more preferable option though because of their inherent value.

Not that there is anything wrong with a premature death, as you can play as some other dwarf straight away. And even if you will play as a peasant - you will ascend again fairly quickly if you are active enough behind the scenes.

When to expect the next update:
I hope this weekend.

[ColdBones]

Re: Timing

Seems reasonable to me - real life is always something to be considered in these cases.

re: Thread move

I don't have an opinion, wherever the thread or threads end up, I'll follow them.

Re: Deaths

1. Oh, she froze in the aquifer?  I didn't know that.  That would have been good info to know for the discussions I've been having.  I know it's onerous to include all of that information in an update though.  Would it make sense to include you in the private discussions we've been having so you could inform of things like that?  Or would that just be too much stuff going on for you to keep up with?

2. Perhaps there's a childcare solution here. EDIT - what I mean is, perhaps an opportunity for a further law or discussion on how to care for children in the settlement.

3.  Sounds like a decent spot for a standing order in the military.  If my miner gets named to a squad I will keep that in mind and suggest something to my squad leader.

4.  I'm not sure there is much we can do here - hunting burrows may be a solution, or, those that hunt can just accept the risk.

5.  I did some reading and my serious solution was clay - the other solutions are complicated, and since I've never played with an aquifer I can't really wrap my head around the others (except the cave in solution that someone mentioned, but I recall you mentioning that one isn't an option here).  I suppose that if we were to go about it by probe holes, all exploratory mining would have to cease in the fall.  Perhaps once the caravan arrives?

Perhaps someone (the overseer or a notable council member, since there are those on the council that don't care to hear the voices of those "below" them) should reiterate that this is basically a settlement on the edge of the frontier and that there are inherent dangers here, regardless of your station/position. 

Anyway, l'm looking forward to playing on once you get the real life stuff sorted out.

[Cain12]

Well I don't mind dying much, and this experience gave me so much, Cain is a cripple now, his bond with Kerod will only get deeper should he fix this unfortunate mishap, and it gave me chance to talk with one or two others I have had little to do with til now that I really should have somewhat regular chats with.

Kerod's actions make sense RP wise so drop the criticism there, like the idea of multiple threads, could make one for character pages and rules at least.
Also thought it was that the ice thawed and she fell into the water, oh well doesn't change much.

1. Oh, she froze in the aquifer?  I didn't know that.  That would have been good info to know for the discussions I've been having.  I know it's onerous to include all of that information in an update though.  Would it make sense to include you in the private discussions we've been having so you could inform of things like that?  Or would that just be too much stuff going on for you to keep up with?

Don't think Cain's wife's death has much to do with this really, plus she died before your guy "arrived" in story so it is reasonable he wouldn't know.

Think that would be a bit much for anyone to handle, I mean we already need to bug him for npc on that matter, least that is what the op seemed to suggest.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

I concur on these fine points. *OOC: The thread move is a good idea, obviously, although this thread moves with ludicrous speed and I may have to leave if the pace picks up further.*
To minimize waterfall-related deaths, I believe we should cause a small cave-in to temporarily block the waterfall whilst we install the appropriate grates/bars (one at the top of the waterfall, one or more to stop people from being flushed further through it's route).

[kero42]

So, I see that you guys are getting bored, so a little non-game, but more FAQ update:

On reports timing:
The intent was to go a game period per week, where period is a year, half year or even one season, depending on fps, inspiration, game time and other things. It is a bit harder to play and write about it then just to play.
Not all is going as planned though. Various family commitments, job, and general frustration of a new role as a GM is interfering with original intentions and slow us down. Also winter holidays. As you might know - some countries still celebrate using Julian calendar, so we have Xmas in Jan.

Well that fair enough, I apologise if it seemed like we were being impatient.

On thread move:
There are basically two issues:
1. The thread is currently in a wrong forum, so some people, willing to RP, may not find it.
2. The thread is ill-managed and important information in it is interlaced with mud general chit-chat.
While first concern can be fixed by starting thread in a different forum(that with AARs and community games), the second one will need to be more carefully inspected: we might need to create several threads in that forum to host different kinds of discussions. so that character sheets are not mixed with political debates and buildings design discussions are kept separated from military drill plans(loadouts, schedules, patrol routes, etc...).
We may even move some info into a more suitable media, like wiki. There are a number of free wikis for such use, like wikia.
So it may be like several discussion threads and one descriptive thread in proper forum + an interlinked wiki with more static info(laws, positions, character sheets, approved designs and same such).

I agree this thread got a bit muddy chit-chatty, so I suppose I will have to control my posting a bit more yes? Otherwise I'm open to the move, and willing to think about the other ideas suggested.

On the unfortunate deaths we had so far:
I noticed that people are not entirely happy about the mortality of the dwarves, especially mentionables. While it is a central part of DF gameplay, I was still forced to think about how to minimize this unfortunate incidents.

Well, I think the deaths added a bit of flavour (as inconvenient as they have been), but It makes sense in-character to ensure these incidents don't repeat.

4. Dwarves can decide to path through a waterfall (it sometimes becomes 1/7 or 2/7 for a very brief time. I guess that is how Lemonpie got flushed. No idea how to fix that. Hunting burrows, ramps digging in key points and not using hunters are our options)

Maybe a Traffic designation? That's usually what people suggest regarding dwarfs walking into waterfalls or thawing rivers, but I wouldn't know if that would stop similar accidents occurring.

EDIT: Does the waterfall freeze? D4X's suggestion of using grates could be safely installed if its frozen solid, that way the water will eventually unfreeze when (assuming its not one of those rivers that unfreeze unpredictably halfway through winter) the dwarves would be out of he way. Though I suppose that plan may take a while an is rather dependant on freezing, just thought I should bring it up.

Just saying "let someone else risk their lives" is not a good enough option (yes Kerod, I am looking at you. Military is actually the safest place to be, statistically speaking.). If you want reasonable security for your dwarves - you will have to do research for the project and commit valuable advice in timely manner. Advice that is both good and is easy to follow. Or you can get some overseer power to do the project first hand(get a save and do the task yourself). Instructions are more preferable option though because of their inherent value.

I will try to post more valuable advice, when able. Though I think poor Kerod is a little bit to stupid ("academically challenged") to think up anything more brilliant or innovative than "send in the disposable war dogs, see if they can hold off the enemy" IC, I will see what my similarly lacking OOC skill can do (though considering I regularly lose forts to dehydration related Tantrum Spirals, I wouldn't hold my breath) . After all, there are so many threads here, I'm sure I can find something of use.

Now to reply to Coldbones:

2. Perhaps there's a childcare solution here. EDIT - what I mean is, perhaps an opportunity for a further law or discussion on how to care for children in the settlement.

So glad you clarified there, I was a bit worried we were going to start up a Dwarven Childcare system (love that project, but it doesn't really fit here) . I agree we should try and keep the kids safe.

Perhaps someone (the overseer or a notable council member, since there are those on the council that don't care to hear the voices of those "below" them) should reiterate that this is basically a settlement on the edge of the frontier and that there are inherent dangers here, regardless of your station/position. 

True, someone really should do that.

Now for Dwarf4Explosive:

I concur on these fine points. *OOC: The thread move is a good idea, obviously, although this thread moves with ludicrous speed and I may have to leave if the pace picks up further.*
To minimize waterfall-related deaths, I believe we should cause a small cave-in to temporarily block the waterfall whilst we install the appropriate grates/bars (one at the top of the waterfall, one or more to stop people from being flushed further through it's route).

Ooh, I like that idea. I wouldn't worry about it moving too fast, it only really happened that one time, and the rest is mainly, as Teledwarf put it, chit-chat. If we become more focused, the gap between post should widen.

And Cain:

Well I don't mind dying much, and this experience gave me so much, Cain is a cripple now, his bond with Kerod will only get deeper should he fix this unfortunate mishap, and it gave me chance to talk with one or two others I have had little to do with til now that I really should have somewhat regular chats with.

Kerod's actions make sense RP wise so drop the criticism there.

1st: So glad to hear you made use of my tragedy,  .
2nd: While I like that you are supportive of me, you really don't need to be so defensive on my account.

tldr: I generally support the sentiments/ideas expressed above.

[neblime]

OOC well I'm all for moving/splitting up the thread if that's what you want to do.  Maybe one thread for influence actions/RP and another for game updates/discussion and finished votes that affect the gameplay

As for dwarves dying I don't think we should coddle them too much, that's no fun! 
But I can see we need to get through the aquifer.  How many z levels deep is it? If it's only 1 we can try the cave in method (assuming there is enough soil above it), otherwise we'll have to use pumps.
Also i recommend just setting dwarves to replace clothing with their armour, frees up the clothes if anyone else needs it, and you can much more easily check their inventory to see if they're wearing the correct things.

[kero42]

Found a link in the New Dwarven Knowledge Centre thread that may be of use regarding the aquifer problem. I'm too tired right now to read it in full to see if it will work in our situation, but I can check them more thoroughly tomorrow. I'll post the link here for you lot to decide for yourselves:

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Double-slit_method

Also metioned, (but looking, at least to my weary eyes, somewhat more complex and less applicable to our situation):
Single-Pick method for breaching 2-layer aquifer
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129994.msg4620472#msg4620472