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[Dwarf4Explosives]

OOC: I never said I was against it. But more importantly, why are you counting the vote of someone who isn't on the council in the first place?

[ColdBones]

OOC

I like the idea of a barony, with an NPC as baron, only to be able to request certain goods from the liaison.

I think the clay factory should be farther away from the city than right across the road, to leave us enough room for houses and so that future factory (stoneworks, forges, etc) are about equidistant to the centre of town.  They don't all need to be in a clump, but if we put it too close then it will be closer than the others.

An artisans guild sounds like a reasonable plan - I'm already looking forward to it falling apart when we get more and more people in them

I don't see why you couldn't be a part of more than one group, so long as there aren't any conflicts of interest between them.

IC

Well, I'm glad that we have a law to organize the ragtag groups of two and three person work teams in the settlement now... [/sarcasm]

Still, I suppose a Miner's Guild should get started sooner than later.  Therefore:

Coldbones Oceanmansion proposes the founding the Miner's Guild

The Guild's mandate will be to ensure mining jobs are completed efficiently and in as safe a manner as possible.  All those that wish to strike the earth should be members of the guild.  Guild membership gets you a vote at internal guild meetings and a bed in the miner's quarters.  There will be no member cap at this time, but if we find that we have too many idle miners, we will address this.

We will require one pick for each miner and the use of the proposed miner's canteen for meetings. (OOC - its not built yet  right?)  The canteen would remain open for public use during non-meetings.

Any complaints from the public regarding mining would be addressed to the guild, to be dealt with by the guild leadership.  (Note I've left "leadership" vague on purpose, to allow for whatever leadership scheme gets implemented in the guild).

I'm willing to answer any questions or address any concerns that the council has with the above proposal.

[kero42]

OOC: Whoa, I forget to check on this for about a day, and we gain the chance at Barony.   

Why, I wouldn't know what to do. On one hand, Kerod would be glad IC to take the position, as he would use it to gain political leverage on his plans. On the other hand, I am OOC concerned about random mandates and other such things (e.g Kerod demands X, then ends up ordering Cain to be beaten to death for not providing.) It would be hard to justify IC, that's all. I would jump at the chance to give Kerod a genuine title, but the idea seems problematic.

I suppose that our expedition leader/Royal Liaison would be suitable (perhaps better) IC as well.

Regardless of other details, I think we should accept, for the trade requests, and so that the king might come one day to be deposed and allow for the throne to be taken by the Vampire God-King of GorgeAdmired, Kingdom of Everlasting Night, Kerod IV to see the fruition of his plan.

[Cain12]

OOC
Well yeah I guess farther away might be a good idea.
IC
All you request is the mining hall?

Would still continue to work in our mines or would we need to make some or deal to ensure continued cooperation?

Who would you have in it, assuming not all of our few miners join?

By dealt with by guild leadership do you mean in cooperation with the ruling body of the settlement?

I see but one real reason to deny your guild, we have two miners by my count. One of which, Mr Mountain Stabpaints, is leaving for full-time military duty soon.
You have one more if Besmar takes up the pick again.

There is also your past to take into account, despite your skill you have caused trouble for us in the past, would people join your guild if they knew the fate of those who worked with you in the past?

Edit:
It occurs Mr Mountain asked for a report on our military, while I can't guarantee it is up to date I will present one shorty once this matter is dealt with.

[ColdBones]

OOC
Well yeah I guess farther away might be a good idea.
IC
All you request is the mining hall?

Would still continue to work in our mines or would we need to make some or deal to ensure continued cooperation?

Who would you have in it, assuming not all of our few miners join?

By dealt with by guild leadership do you mean in cooperation with the ruling body of the settlement?

I see but one real reason to deny your guild, we have two miners by my count. One of which, Mr Mountain Stabpaints, is leaving for full-time military duty soon.
You have one more if Besmar takes up the pick again.

There is also your past to take into account, despite your skill you have caused trouble for us in the past, would people join your guild if they knew the fate of those who worked with you in the past?

Edit:
It occurs Mr Mountain asked for a report on our military, while I can't guarantee it is up to date I will present one shorty once this matter is dealt with.

Aye, just the mining hall, if the needs of the guild grow, we will petition the council for further resources, but for now this is all we need.  We are short resources here and I would not burden the settlement with extraneous requests at this time - let us first be successful before we try to be luxurious. 

I would propose that overarching goals be set by council and the strategic mining of areas be decided either at the council or guild level.  If the council needs or wants an area mined in a specific fashion, that can be accomplished.  If the council wants "more iron ore" then the guild can handle that request.  We could also leave mining location decisions entirely in the hands of the council.  I'm not vying for that power, but leaving all of the specific mining location decisions up to the council may be too much to ask.  If you give us some general direction, we can take of the details.  We would reserve the right to strike should conditions become too bad, if we were denied food or an equal share, for example, or in dangerous conditions, such as wet or warm stone.  However, I have no intention to usurp decision making power regarding mining from the council, only to make it easier to accomplish the council's agreed upon goals.

As for numbers, we certainly could use a few more miners, but with the number of beards in our settlement I don't think we could support more than three.  I think it best if we establish the guild now, while the settlement is small and allow it and the rules and laws surrounding it to grow organically. 

As I've said in the past, mining is an inherently dangerous trade, each and every day any miner could die below the ground, trapped in a cavein or mining into lava.  If there are any that would be better suited to the task, feel free to step forward.

[neblime]

Coldbones Oceanmansion (+0) Proposes the miner's guild
For:1
Against:? (cain I wasn't clear on whether you were voting no or just saying reasons you didnt like the idea)
I see no reason to deny the formation of this guild.  Keep in mind my dear cain this vote does not give them ownership of, or the promise to build anything, those will have to be separate votes if the guild is approved.
OOC
and you keep that in mind too coldbones, you can't ask for guild formation and property in one vote, the guild forming is the only thing that can happen in this one vote

[Cain12]

I am not opposed then, the guild seems fair, but due to the lack of members I must insist you find at least 2 more before the year is over.

Coldbones Oceanmansion (+2*) Proposes the miner's guild
For:2
Against:0

The promised report for Mr Mountain:

Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)

5 Whips (2 iron 3 copper)
7 Battle Axes (1 iron, 1 silver, 2 copper, 2 bronze, 1 steel)
16 War Hammers (12 iron, 2 copper, 1 bronze, 1 bismuth bronze)
3 Short Swords (3 iron)
3 Maces (1 iron, 2 copper)
35 crossbows (2 iron, 1 copper, 1 platinuim (the artifact), 1 bismuth bronze, 5 oaken, 5 willow, 4 chestnut, 3 alder, 3 birchen, 4 ashen)
1 Bow (1 iron)
3 Halberd (1 iron,  2 copper)
4 Two-handed Swords (1 iron, 2 silver, 1 copper)
2 Long Swords (1 iron, 1 copper)
8 Large Daggers (4 iron, 2 silver, 2 copper)
1 Scourge (1 silver)
4 Scimitar (1 silver, 3 copper)
9 Training axes (1 willow, 1 tower-cap, 2 highwood, 2 chestnut, 1 alder, 2 ashen)
5 Picks (3 copper, 2 bronze)

Spoiler: Ammunition (click to show/hide)

897 Bolts (674 iron, 50 copper, 35 bronze, 33 bismuth bronze, 55 oaken, 1 willow, 29 highwood, 1 chestnut, 11 alder, 4 birchen, 4 ashen)
17 Arrows (17 copper)

Spoiler: Armor (click to show/hide)

30 breastplates (17 iron, 13 copper)
420 misc leather/wool/slik clothes and armor
30 helms (18 iron, 12 copper)
245 misc leather/silk/wool hoods, caps ect
195 Legware, leather, large deal of which is too large for use
29 Shields (23 iron, 5 copper, 1 highwood)
36 Backpacks
22 Quivers
22 Lowboots (22 iron)
630 misc foot wear
22 Iron gauntlets (22 iron)
422 misc gloves

We have many bars, most of which is Iron (320) with little steel (2), gold (6), silver (9), copper (7), and other misc metals that you don't need to hear about.

Full-time military, they all dabble in some skills like striking, kicking ect:

Spoiler: Teledwarf (click to show/hide)

Skilled Hammerer
Skilled Marksdwarf
Talented Fighter
Skilled Archer
Novice Wrestler
Dabbling Armor user
Talented Dodger
Equipment: Iron set, Platinum Crossbow (OOC: Copper in my save, but assume it should be the new artifact one)
Health:NA
Kills:NA
Notes:Slow to tire, rarely sick, tough and agile. Astounding feel of his own bodies position, willpower.

Spoiler: Zargoth (click to show/hide)

Proficient Axedwarf
Noivice Shield user
Expert Fighter
Dabbling Armor user
Adequate Wrestler
Proficient Dodger
Equipment: Iron set, Iron axe
Health:NA
Kills:2 goblins
Notes:Inexhaustible, Extremely agile, Iron Will

Spoiler: Sakzul (click to show/hide)

Talented Hammerer
Competent Marksdwarf
Novice Shield user
Dabbling Armor user
Expert Fighter
Adequate Wrestler
Skilled Dodger
Equipment:Iron set, Iron hammer
Health:NA
Kills:1 kobold 1 goblin
Notes:Basically unbreakable and agile. Iron will, great feel of surrounding space, very good sense of body postion, great intuition, impatient. 

Spoiler: Mr Mountain (click to show/hide)

Dabbling in many unarmed skills, armor and shield user as well.
Equipment:Armor is unassigned, assumed you will get a iron set and your preference of weapon
Kills:NA
Health:NA
Notes:Very rarely sick and agile, but is weak and quick to tire. Good intuition and Unbreakable will.

Spoiler: Dwarf4Explosive (click to show/hide)

Skilled Hammerer
Skilled Marksdwarf
Dabbling Shield and Armor user
Proficient Fighter
Skilled Archer
Novice Wrestler
Talented Dodger
Equipment:Iron set, oaken crossbow
Kills:NA
Health:NA
Notes:Inexhaustible and tough, really susceptible to disease. Bad intuition, patient, great spatial and kinesthetic sense. Also a little bonkers imo.

OOC
Is that all of them?
*the miners hall design was approved so she should have 2.

This was more of a pain to do than I thought, and I still half-assed it, it should be enough for a general idea of our military situation.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

OOC: Why do we have silver swords rather than silver warhammers? Isn't silver one of the worst materials for swords, next to gold or wood?

[TeleDwarf]

First of all, Hats Off To Cain!!!
That is an awesome report. I know how time consuming, boring and underrated these things can be. Great job!

OOC: I never said I was against it. But more importantly, why are you counting the vote of someone who isn't on the council in the first place?

I am not counting. We have a secretary for that. I was just looking fora consensus, and there was clearly none.

Regarding factory: you guys understand that all  your proposed locations are well beyond the starting walls? I assumed that you would want it to be inside the walls... Your call, just making sure that you know.

OOC: Why do we have silver swords rather than silver warhammers? Isn't silver one of the worst materials for swords, next to gold or wood?

Those are spoils of war. Goblins brought them in and even sliced some Urist with those.
Silver warhammers are only marginally better then any other common metal warhammers. It is a mater of debate if it really worth it to spend valuable and relatively rare metal on warhammers instead of decorations and other works of art. Unfortunately we do not have a war leader to give his ruling on this issue, and council never passed any orders about it.

I totally agree that silver swords are shit. Especially greatswords, which are impossible to use in DF mode at all. Eventually they ought to be smelted, but we just not sure when and for what purpose.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

I suppose using the silver for decorations for the Council would be the most sensible idea, next to using it to decorate an area where both Council Members and peasants regularly walk past. Some sort of main square or the main gate to the fortress could be such a place, perhaps.

[Cain12]

You are too kind, like I said I half-assed it about half way through. I swear there was one more solider but I can't seem to find them.

Well maybe it is time for landmark commissioner to do his job and commission us something pretty to lift the peoples spirits, or remind them of our losses thus far. Or just something pretty for us councilors.

Yes I noticed it was beyond our walls, can always build more walls later and if the potters want guards this would be the best way to justify it.
Fine with moving closer if you feel they need protection. Which given how many have the potential to live there we may want to consider doing.

[kero42]

Well maybe it is time for landmark commissioner to do his job and commission us something pretty to lift the peoples spirits, or remind them of our losses thus far. Or just something pretty for us councilors.

OOC: WHAT!? Kerod actually doing his council appointed job? You ask too much!

lawl, I will see what I can do. A town square would be nice, but I have no idea where we would put it. Perhaps use the arch, if you can come up with something worth it. Really, any suggestions would be appreciated. Perhaps something to commemorate being a Barony, if we choose to accept.

EDIT: Ooh, how about having a more general Arch of Remembrance? "Every time you pass, take a moment to think of someone no longer with us." It would be nice looking, and respect the dead.

[Cain12]

EDIT: Ooh, how about having a more general Arch of Remembrance? "Every time you pass, take a moment to think of someone no longer with us." It would be nice looking, and respect the dead.

Well I like it, propose/mention IC and I will offer Cain's thoughts. Certainly have the metals and stone to make it.

[TeleDwarf]

Yes I noticed it was beyond our walls, can always build more walls later and if the potters want guards this would be the best way to justify it.
Fine with moving closer if you feel they need protection. Which given how many have the potential to live there we may want to consider doing.

I do not care about personal survival of every single dwarf. Especially if those dwarves explicitly state that they want to be unprotected.

Basically there are few things to consider when choosing a construction site:
1. What are the logistical links of this site? Brick factory consumes coal (supplied from the smelters in the south) and locally-gathered clay. It produces bricks that are used all around the place, starting from the center of the settlement and to it's borders, and into the sky for additional floors and in the streets for roads, etc...
Also suggests that factory will consume food and booze.

2. What are the security considerations of the site? Is there choke points around like bridges and same such?  Is there any warning posts in any directions? Can this site be first to encounter trouble?

3. RP and aesthetics. This probably should have been number 1. What will this site represent? How will it look? How will it be used? How will it expand?
Basically it can be a sound RP strategy to build a factory far away, and then build a hamlet around it: homes for the workers, a small kitchen, minecart terminal for booze import/brick export, a curtain wall with tiny towers, own part-time militia guarding the walls, own small wood furnace and a resident lumberjack... Nice and cosy...
Otherwise I do not see why exactly people want to start their stuff in the middle of nowhere, away from everything, even more vulnerable then GorgeAdmired itself. Their call though. Whatever lights your fire guys .

Certainly have the metals and stone to make it.

We recovered mines, we have been trading our old tattered clothes for useful stuff like metals, I am going to request steel ingredients at large from dwarven caravans henceforth, unless council finds better use for liaison's offers.

[Cain12]

Well in that case I'm fine with position as it is, for IC reasons. Giving everyone iron (or steel) could be a plan, so we don't have to make/buy clothes as much,  if citizenship ever becomes something higher than the standard that could be part of the perks. Or that could be a reserved right for people that do military service of some sort. Meh food for thought.