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[TeleDwarf]

Could probably just use the smelter design if that is still acceptable

smellter is awesome. it is basically a blast furnace. We will build it entirely from brick, as brick has awesome temperature isolation properties. Far better then those of stone(which wiould be very heat-hungry)

As of jail and other designs, I can add corner beams myself and decide which levels should be built with what. Of course it is always better to have architect who knows beforehand of the technological limitations .

As of center beam - it is greatly dependent on the building size. I am thinking of adding a couple of those to LongHall. without them it looks a bit bland. Smaller buildings could as well do without them.

Kerod, you are totally correct. It is very inconvenient, but also very realistic. But as we want to have a medieval-style city - we will surely only profit from the many building types of various designs. That is why dignified burial was also a pretty bad idea (making peasants tombs into just boring squares). And that is why we absolutely do not need dignified dwelling of any kind. We instead want to have a whole variety of different conditions, slums, shacks, apprentice homes, master quarters, noble manors and mansions, palaces, temples with monk cells, barracks, etc... As per my grand plan same should have been for final resting places. Oh, well.

[kero42]

As per my grand plan same should have been for final resting places. Oh, well.

If this proposition of yours were made a law, would it not stipulate a change in policy for previous laws, including tomb design, so that they match up with the new building requirements? If so, it could provide an (admittedly minuscule) consolation. On the other hand, It could simply mean more work.

I should hope we can amend the tomb law in the future, at least to allow the more personal tombs for us nobles. After all, the law is the 'Dignified Burial Act', not the 'Absolute Class Equality Burial Act' (although it seems that equality is one of the things the law enforces anyway, to my dismay). So I imagine the law would be open to changes in the future, especially when the class divides become more apparent.

[TeleDwarf]

If this proposition of yours were made a law, would it not stipulate a change in policy for previous laws, including tomb design, so that they match up with the new building requirements? If so, it could provide an (admittedly minuscule) consolation. On the other hand, It could simply mean more work.

I am not proposing a law here, just discussing realistic building techniques and the underlying reasoning(want beautiful city + realism => beams, supports, material properties that are not simulated in DF). It is not that hard to make a stone box underground, so these considerations do not apply to Dignified Burial Act.

I should hope we can amend the tomb law in the future, at least to allow the more personal tombs for us nobles. After all, the law is the 'Dignified Burial Act', not the 'Absolute Class Equality Burial Act' (although it seems that equality is one of the things the law enforces anyway, to my dismay). So I imagine the law would be open to changes in the future, especially when the class divides become more apparent.

That surprises me a great deal, as you was one of the first to support the act.
Technically we can amend that law by declaring that only these guys are citizens, while those guys are just farmers/serfs and these are patricians, while that group is clergy and some other guys are nobility. And the law says citizens, so bite me. On the other hand it would be using the letter of law against the spirit of law, and we are yet to determine how desirable is that kind of precedent.

[kero42]

I am not proposing a law here, just discussing realistic building techniques and the underlying reasoning(want beautiful city + realism => beams, supports, material properties that are not simulated in DF). It is not that hard to make a stone box underground, so these considerations do not apply to Dignified Burial Act.

Lol, suppose I mis-read that, but it could still be taken into account. I suppose my previous suggestion could be disregarded.

That surprises me a great deal, as you was one of the first to support the act.
Technically we can amend that law by declaring that only these guys are citizens, while those guys are just farmers/serfs and these are patricians, while that group is clergy and some other guys are nobility. And the law says citizens, so bite me. On the other hand it would be using the letter of law against the spirit of law, and we are yet to determine how desirable is that kind of precedent.

I supported the law conditionally, then decided to support it upon a personal appeal from a friend, despite my disagreement with certain aspects.

The idea of intentionally violating the letter of the law should be good to keep in mind in the design of all future laws, (teehee). If I wanted to create a loophole it could be worded in such a way, and If I wanted to prevent such loop holes I would have to carefully word it so as to make the letter as close to the spirit as possible. During law making discussions, such 'features in the wording' could be pointed out by others (votes could be given on the condition it be re-worded), or ignored in favour of letting it through with the current wording. Could be fun for the more devious members of our council. (but not me, due to my poor grasp of semantics preventing such clever wording.)

[TeleDwarf]

A Dwarf4Explosive's daughter just arrived together with her husband: Meng Ducimengig
A Dwarf4Explosive's daughter just arrived together with her husband: Dastot Konosmeng
Dashedsilver's son just arrived together with his wife: Ducim Ogredablel

And dwarves apparently hate having a chance to survive - they outright refuse to wear the armor I created.

I thought we had a good booze supply, but looks like a dedicated distillery construction is in order:

[Hahayeah]

A Dwarf4Explosive's daughter just arrived together with her husband: Meng Ducimengig
A Dwarf4Explosive's daughter just arrived together with her husband: Dastot Konosmeng
Dashedsilver's son just arrived together with his wife: Ducim Ogredablel

And dwarves apparently hate having a chance to survive - they outright refuse to wear the armor I created.

I thought we had a good booze supply, but looks like a dedicated distillery construction is in order:

Good for dwarf4explosive, She has more family to support her now.
Also yes a distillery would be great, Do we have a brewer?

[TeleDwarf]

not really, but I think someone will step up when we will have a nice moonshine facility.

[ColdBones]

OOC
While I don't have a vote, I very much like the idea of a stone foundation with wooden supports.  We could run on the assumption that the dwarves have discovered the magic of the arch for stone construction and simulate it with supports, then supports would provide support for some amount of floor above it. 


z=0
=======
=           =
=           =
=I         I= <--- These supports support an arch and beam
=           =
=           =
=======

z=+1
+++++++
+++++++
+++++++
+++++++
+++++++
+++++++
+++++++

= - wall
I - support
+ - floor on wall
+ - cantilever floor over wall
+ - floor supported by beam and arch (one cantilevered tile per side)

EDIT - the north/south walls would also support the floor above it in the same way, so you could also draw it with a green square and then red square of floor (so there would be a 9x9 white floor square on the second floor). 

I was thinking perhaps supports at the corners as well, but I'm not sure if they work the same way as walls - are they passable?


Span distances aren't "set in stone" (nyuk nyuk) and would be open for interpretation, or could even be increased over time, if we wanted to get that deep into things.

[Cain12]

Distillery is made, not sure if it is any good but here it is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

F1
F2

Additional storage can be made underground if needed, as well as more stills, the Second floor is to serve as a sort of balcony, not really attached to this design since it was made on spur of the moment.
Edit: Brewmaster (awful name, Head Brewer makes more sense) was just an idea, if you don't like it we can convert that spot to more bedrooms or stills or storage.

[Lexx]

Dashedsilver welcomes his son with open arms. Congratulating him and his wife on the journey. Hoping that they will settle in fast and be of great help to the work being done here. "It does my pride much good to have you here son!" he says slapping him on the back after they meet. Taking the pair to show them around the settlement thus far. Explaining as they go their recent trials and tribulations and his own recent assignment to the hospital to help any wounded in future.

[kero42]

OOC: I like the idea of beams, presuming we have the materials for them.

At your mention of the need for a distillery, I remembered something I meant to ask when the industry list was first brought up a few pages ago.

Will people be able to own these properties? I suppose what I have in mind would be that due to the workers living in/nearby the workplace, there would be some sort of 'head worker' (probably the most skilled), who gets a better room and (if a dwarfed player) certain control of that industries management, or maybe a sort of landlord type who owns the building but doesn't actually work in it's industry. I suppose the industries of masonry or carpentry would be sort of like guild workshops, where the craftsmen lived and worked.

If I could come up with an example, then I suppose it would be the masonry workshops. This 'Head Mason' would be the one who had been working the longest/ had the most skill, and would reside in a larger (relative to the roughly 2x3 attached worker homes) room. If he was displeased with say, a lazy noble demanding an unrealistically extravagant stone palace, then he could refuse it's construction regardless of any corruptly bought planning permission. This authority would not be entirely absolute (perhaps based on influence, that way it may be overturned), but it would certainly give the workers some representation and power over their affairs.

Or a Noble/landlord who owns a Farm could insist on the growing of strawberries on his land. Or if the farms were community owned and they refused to cater to his demands due a shortage of some resource (or other such crop issue), and noble owned some unused land, he could request it be made into a farm for said strawberries, assuming he could get some workers to farm it for him.

I have little idea on how to make it work fairly, and the idea is still a bit rough, but I suppose that's why I'm posting, to receive feedback and suggestions.

PS:

Distillery is made, not sure if it is any good but here it is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

F1
F2

Additional storage can be made underground if needed, as well as more stills, the Second floor is to serve as a sort of balcony, not really attached to this design since it was made on spur of the moment.

I think it looks nice.

[TeleDwarf]

I am at a bit of a loss here. ColdBones and Iden (Kerod's lover) were trying to prepare a checkerboard aquifer freezing setup (and had a moderate struggle against the stream, slipping into the drain trenches), and Cain was building pumps to attempt a self-drainage technique in a nearby underground location. It was going pretty well (except miners' struggle, but that was benign for uite some time now), when Cain decided to path through the checkerboard instead of through the access tunnel (I believe because checkerboard path looked shorter then twisty tunnel), and he slipped, was swayed by the waves and fell. Unfortunately he was carrying a heavy equipment - a pipe section, which fell right after Cain and broke his lower back, forfeiting his ability to stand. Now ColdBones, Iden and Cain are struggling with the stream, while Cain is injured. Yesterday I decided to take a pause and think about it and am going to try to save the day in the evening. For now - will appreciate suggestions as of how to save these three. I would hate it if Cain expired in the aquifer.

Here is the map. The three poor souls are in the water at the south where Iden's wardog is standing.

Coldbones,
Supports are path-able, so I believe they represent rather thin supporting beams. I personally like your way of the arc-support for the smaller buildings, especially for long, thin buildings. We could fix the "thin support" issue by building a wall section there, representing a support column, adjusted to the wall.

Kerod, I think it is very possible to have ownership on manufactures and guilds. Especially if player-owners will be responsible enough to suggest nice features, plans, designs, schemes and same such.

Cain, Distillery looks nice. I will perhaps make a second floor main hall an empty space, to give toxic vapors enough space to escape. And I think I will also add an underground barrel storage. Not sure where to store plants though. Underground too? Adjacent barn? Across the street?
We can also build an adjacent mead hall, and build a kitchen on the other side of it (of mead hall)?

[ColdBones]

OOC

Holy shit -  didn't realize the mines were that flooded.  (Oh, what's that, my noob is showing? I've never dealt with an aquifer before)

IC
"We cannot allow those that toil in the mines to perish, doing the bidding of the council."  ColdBones thinks.

[Cain12]

Oh god no, not like my wife, I can't die like that.
I have so much to achieve. Is that Iden? Kerods wife. I can't let her die. It would destroy Kerod.
Now I am going to buried in one of those god awful burial tombs if I don't make it out, or worse yet, left here to rot.
*Cue additional panicking as he lies in a wet waterly grave*

OOC
So save them if you can, have no idea how, did say that Cain should stay away from water but I guess that would have been too much of a pain to actually do, sigh.
Cold Bones you are currently in there with Cain and Iden, not in position to suggest anything IC to the council. No idea how to save them, calling Kidet if I die, which I probably will. Not really fair to call gods before the fact, besides Kidet while fun might not be the one I pick.

Edit:Also Kero, Kerod will indeed not take this well, losing both his lover/wife (hoping lover, for your sake), his commoner/friend, and the one he blames (rightly or wrongly) taken from him in one fell swoop, I have a few ideas on how to vent that anger if you ever get a chance at the bodies.
But I am getting ahead of myself, we may very well live.

[kero42]

IC:

Don't just stand there, help them! They can't die, they simply can't! Who let Iden near that mine?! Come on, who, WHO?! After I SPECIFICALLY I wanted her away from Danger, who let the fool-hardy woman near the water? Did we learn nothing from Oilcut*?

If she dies I will have whoever flooded that mines head! He started this! You had better save them!

OCC:
  *Cain's dead wife
lol, all hysterical ranting aside, I have no idea how to save them. I hope someone knows, as I would rather Cain and Iden live.


....What's the (RP) respectful mourning period before looking for a new lover? Just in case. My oh my, if only she had given Kerod a child....

EDIT: To clarify, Kerods just feeling a bit panicky, and blames this on the mines flood. Whether that is the truth or not is irrelevant to him.