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[Zanzetkuken The Great]

(I'm assuming that these turns aren't composed of 15 minutes of straight conversation followed by 3.75 hours of silence. Instead, I work under the assumption that the conversations are occurring at various times scattered amongst the hours-long period of time.)

(Honestly, while that does make sense, the timeline being broken like that is a tad disconcerting for flow.  While there isn't a conversation-silence to the extent you describe, truthfully, we're writing more as excerpts that take place every four hours.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, given the focus on the hours-long work, we can't exactly do a detailed description of everything.

More typical roleplays--ones more focused on the roleplaying--have it easier; not many actions are going to take more than a few minutes, and those that do are mostly backdrops to something else. This can't easily do that. We are going to be tied down across the fortress; if we're not willing to have a little non-linear storytelling with the conversations, we're hamstringing ourselves as far as roleplaying goes.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Well, given the focus on the hours-long work, we can't exactly do a detailed description of everything.

More typical roleplays--ones more focused on the roleplaying--have it easier; not many actions are going to take more than a few minutes, and those that do are mostly backdrops to something else. This can't easily do that. We are going to be tied down across the fortress; if we're not willing to have a little non-linear storytelling with the conversations, we're hamstringing ourselves as far as roleplaying goes.

(Not really.  From how I am reading it, non-linear does not work.

Just look at the conversation: you were talking to me, then in the middle of that conversation, you jumped outside, then you are back inside, and there is not a single transition.  The way some of these conversations have been reading, it seems that we are all in a five foot radius of each other constantly, while in actuality people are actually in groups a dozen or so meters apart from each other.)

[Erils]

"We should probably all get inside when the storm comes here."

[GreatWyrmGold]

(Not really.  From how I am reading it, non-linear does not work.

Just look at the conversation: you were talking to me, then in the middle of that conversation, you jumped outside, then you are back inside, and there is not a single transition.  The way some of these conversations have been reading, it seems that we are all in a five foot radius of each other constantly, while in actuality people are actually in groups a dozen or so meters apart from each other.)

Simple explanation: It's non-linear. One conversation happens, then another later, but we do both at the same time because of our interface.

Do you have a better idea?

[RadtheCad]

((The alternative will decrease the number of conversations, making for less and less rich roleplaying.  That would be unfortunate.

I, for one, would prefer to have more conversations- they keep activity on the page up and stop us being bored when nothing's happening because someone forgot to post a turn.  Besides, discussion and ideas etc.))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((The alternative will decrease the number of conversations, making for less and less rich roleplaying.  That would be unfortunate.

I, for one, would prefer to have more conversations- they keep activity on the page up and stop us being bored when nothing's happening because someone forgot to post a turn.  Besides, discussion and ideas etc.))

(Precisely. Also, how many people are here so they can slowly build butcher's shops and such, as opposed to so we can enjoy RPing in a DF world with all our friends, acquaintances, and enemies?)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

((The alternative will decrease the number of conversations, making for less and less rich roleplaying.)

(That, honestly, is not true.  Look at the second "If Bay Forum were a Mountain Hall thread.  It had linear progression, and there were quite a few conversations.  You just have to describe your character leaving one conversation, and walking over to another group who is already conversing.  How hard is that?  And really, I view conversations as the minimum of roleplaying.  The 'rich' stuff is where you describe the body language of the characters and their inner thoughts, which honestly, the second is the best form for character development, in my opinion.  When you do that, everyone gets to know your character better, which allows others to create longer posts, using your character, and having them perform actions that make sense.)

((Besides, discussion and ideas etc.))

(You underestimate the potency of people getting caught up in that.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

((The alternative will decrease the number of conversations, making for less and less rich roleplaying.)

(That, honestly, is not true.  Look at the second "If Bay Forum were a Mountain Hall thread.  It had linear progression, and there were quite a few conversations.  You just have to describe your character leaving one conversation, and walking over to another group who is already conversing.  How hard is that?

((A lot harder if you're talking with someone who isn't online much, or who lives in a different time zone, or something.))

And really, I view conversations as the minimum of roleplaying.  The 'rich' stuff is where you describe the body language of the characters and their inner thoughts, which honestly, the second is the best form for character development, in my opinion.  When you do that, everyone gets to know your character better, which allows others to create longer posts, using your character, and having them perform actions that make sense.)

((Body language is pretty minor, thoughts are cheap, and it's the character-on-character interactions that make things interesting.))

((Besides, discussion and ideas etc.))

(You underestimate the potency of people getting caught up in that.)

((Your point?))


((Overall, a game where people are allowed to have plenty of conversations and do as much body language/thoughts stuff as they want is a lot better than one where they can be locked out by trying to talk to the wrong person--losing several hours or more of potential roleplaying--and have to try and describe body language and just throw in thoughts to make up the difference))

[Baffler]

Baffler listened to the approaching thunder, pensive as always as he worked to put together the carpentry bench. He never spoke much even before he'd been thrust into this new world, but now his silence held something entirely different. Baffler was worried.

This new world was Dwarf Fortress. And as the day went on, Baffler couldn't help but think about the countless fortresses he'd played and seen run into the ground. He thought of all the brutality and violence that anything and everything could inflict on his dwarves, and how eagerly they'd returned the favor. He had just finished butchering a bear, he'd never even seen a bear until yesterday. The thunder was getting louder now, but he decided it would be best to keep working until the rain started coming down on his head. This was a very dangerous world, and if he was going to make it through, he would have to learn to hold his own.

Glancing over at the wooden spear he'd claimed earlier, he decided that time would have to come sooner rather than later.

(I'm with GWG on this one, I'd rather just assume I took a break to talk to someone or something like that to keep it more open for RP/story purposes.)

[WillowLuman]

(Sounds good to me)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

(I'm with GWG on this one, I'd rather just assume I took a break to talk to someone or something like that to keep it more open for RP/story purposes.)

(Can there at least be these two things: 1) an approximate half-hour period in which the conversation is taking place in, and 2) some form of transition.  The first to see if your character could take part in the conversation, whether them being occupied by a task or already are in another conversation at that time, and the second so that jumps between conversations are not so abrupt?)

[GreatWyrmGold]

((A. Seems like that would be more complicated than it's worth...I mean, 90% of us are in roughly the same spot for hours on end, not counting breaks. Plus, it sets up a sort of implication that we can only have one conversation per half-hour.
B. The second seems acceptable, as long as we don't need to worry about being in only one conversation at a RL time.))

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

((A. Seems like that would be more complicated than it's worth...I mean, 90% of us are in roughly the same spot for hours on end, not counting breaks. Plus, it sets up a sort of implication that we can only have one conversation per half-hour.
B. The second seems acceptable, as long as we don't need to worry about being in only one conversation at a RL time.))

(A. Don't forget you are also working, and each of those tasks takes quite a bit.  While it is possible to speak with the others nearby you working on a task, you can't readily go around to different groups, because then the work would not get done.  In addition, conversations take a long time to complete, so while you could say you were on break, there are times when you can't, because the time it takes to walk the distance between the areas, added into the conversation length, could put you past the 4 hour point, making the work have to take more time than you have available, meaning it isn't completed, and you have to work on it again during the next time frame.)

And really, I view conversations as the minimum of roleplaying.  The 'rich' stuff is where you describe the body language of the characters and their inner thoughts, which honestly, the second is the best form for character development, in my opinion.  When you do that, everyone gets to know your character better, which allows others to create longer posts, using your character, and having them perform actions that make sense.)

((Body language is pretty minor, thoughts are cheap, and it's the character-on-character interactions that make things interesting.))
[

(You highly underestimate the ability to use thought to make things interesting.  Just look at Erils's reaction to hunting.  In my opinion, that was more interesting than most of the conversations that have been had in this thread.)

(You underestimate the potency of people getting caught up in that.)

((Your point?))

(My point was that discussions people are caught up in can keep the thread up just as good as roleplaying sometimes.  Example: this very discussion.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

((First: Well, two considerations. First: These conversations are the kind we can get done in a few minutes, tops. Second: Fun trumps realism, every time. If we're putting on plays in these conversations, there's a problem, but just conversations shouldn't be problematic. No reason to worry about the time it takes, really.))

((Second: My point wasn't that they didn't make things interesting, it's that they're a cheaper way to characterize something or whatever. It's the difference between outright stating that Bob is swift to anger, and having Bob be swift to anger when he talks about a sensitive subject. Show, don't tell.))

((Third: Keeping the thread bumped is hardly the most important part of conversations. Besides, these discussions come up once, get settled, and then get forgotten. Unless we actively try to use them to bump the thread, it won't work too often. Conversations, on the other hand, are constantly seeded by--and sometimes without--external action.))