Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tiruin]

"Everyone needs hugs."

• Superblackcat -
• Sinlessmoon -
• Imp - Persus13
• Persus13 -
• MyOwnWorstEnemy -
• Nerjin - Imp
• Not Voting:

The day has been extended with 4 requests. Please remember that the GMT//UTC +8 is a link to the time counter.

Day 3 has begun and will end on January 28, 2013 [Tuesday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day
There is one possible extension remaining today. 

Praise be, for zombie urist's LurkerTracker!

Tiruin:  Do people need prods from the prodgod?

The Nerjin and the Sinless have been prodded (and were prodded before, but the message is not in my outbox so they're prodded again!) I am unsure whether both were sent though. :S

Tiruin: I just noticed that you kept me down as voting for wolf. Is the post where I unvoted invalid? If so, would you like for me to go back and get rid of it?

Well you could copy and paste it right now into this day's posts, as I said all posts after Imp's are declared void and unneeded.
So yes. It is invalid (due to strict time schedule).
I'm ok if you keep it, but if you'd like to set the line wherein the post is declared null, then thank you either way.

[Nerjin]

Nerjin, I have a theory.  When the game opened, both our ICs found out they were Scum.  Both our ICs, being really nice people who wanted to help their newbies learn how to play but not wanting to wipe the floor with them, kind of 'panicked', said to each other in Scumchat, 'No way are we doing this to our newbies for real', and both decided to do the IC role right but play 'wrong', act Scummy to help teach the newbies what Scummy looks like.  You decided to do one sort of wrongness, the other IC did a different sort.

Is that why you are talking about inactivity, but being inactive?

I'll post more at home as I'm at college right now and really should be doing my work but I made a commitment to you guys... One I'm rather failing at.

but first allow me to propose an alternate hypothesis: 4mask got mafia and I don't know what he was thinking at all because I got town. Vanilla town to be specific. Now, let's say I'm an IC who prefers teaching people directly and letting them feel things out on their own, stepping in as needed. NOW let's assume that I come in and give advice and people all start posting and... MY GOD! They're pretty competent from my point of view.

Now let's say this town finds mafia Day 1. Good job guys! Now let's say that I think 'Well they've got this other than the lurking bit. So I'll hark on that.'

Day 2 goes by with pretty good scum-hunting. Nothing on par with the pros but pretty damn decent. I think to myself 'I'm not really needed here with the several returning players [who probably didn't need this in the first place] and the new guys are pretty good and one of them is actually REALLY good in his first game.' Now let's bring that back to the fact that I like teaching through actually teaching. There's not much to teach other than 'Don't lurk and keep it-' Uh oh...

More people replaced in. Hm... So this has ceased being a BM to me in terms of gameplay and just a very basic game of mafia. I think to myself 'Eh... I'm not really needed. I'll keep an eye out.'

Is that the best thing I've ever done? No. But I did it. I'll try to say stuff where needed but I feel like I'm a redundant factor here. I'm just a player with fancier sig-text.

You guys are doing well from what I see.

Except... Well you're floundering right here but I'll discuss that when I get home. come on imp, you're better than this baseless attack.

[Silthuri]

Imp:

MyOwnWorstEnemy

Fair enough. But especially after said strong town member who had been completely against someone who flipped scum and had been for the entire time, one could most likely be assured that they're town, and a strong and active one at that. I'm sure even us beginners understand that's someone worth protecting. AND with no NK, wouldn't the jail keeper be assured that they protected the right person and keep it up?

Maybe.  A Jailkeeper can stop a kill two ways, by targeting Scum or the Scum's target.  Either is the right person that first night, but the Scum can pick a different target each night, so the Jailkeeper may or may not be able to prevent later kills by holding their target (if they picked the Scum's target, not the Scum).  However, with just one Scum alive a Jailkeeper is confirming people as being Town, at least to themself, if they target someone and there's still a night kill - whoever was protected could not have done the kill.  We already know that if we have a Jailkeeper, that Jailkeeper did not target either 4maskwolf (4mask was able to inspect) or Mastahcheese (Mastah was able to be inspected) N1.  Maybe that Jailkeeper did pick the same target night 2 as they had picked night 1, but this failed to prevent the N2 kill (this would suggest that the Jailkeeper's target N1 was the Scum target N1, or that there was no Scum target N1, and since there was a night kill, the protected person could not have done it - that protected person is Town, though only the Jailkeeper knows this is proven).

You seem rather interested in the Jailkeeper and if we have one or not.  What benefit do you think discussing the possible Jailkeeper's actions has for Town and/or the Jailkeeper himself, if we have one?

I'm using what I think a JK would do to prove that there isn't one, and further explain my thoughts about what's happened the last two nights. I hadn't meant to dwell on this, actually, but I haven't had a choice. Initially, it was just a small suspicion I had in my head that had been forming since there was no night kill. My only interest in the presence/absence of a JK is what it tells me about the scum's actions. The reason I'm so interested about the JK, which I think I've said before, is that I believe that there is a great possibility that one of the (ex)lurkers are scum. No night kill on the first night and then the kill of the best player the second night made me quite suspicious. This all is my attempt to explain this situation. But it is simply a theory filled with WIFOM. 

You put forth good arguments, and I'm well aware of how the JK works. As you said, the JK obviously didn't protect mastahcheese because he was able to be inspected. If there are two players (Persus and I) who claim that mastahcheese is a great town member and he was, arguably, the most active player we had, wouldn't that send up a flag for both the JK and the scum?

SBC:

4maskwolf - MyOwnWorstEnemy, Superblackcat, Nerjin,  Persus13

Alright. So, each of you give me why you continued to vote him, when it was pretty obvious there was no other Cop claims.

MOWE
You are the one with the oldest and most legitimate claim against me. How do you feel about the fact that three have joined you? Would you call it bandwagoning or a legitimate claim?

I don't think I'm the person with the oldest claim against you personally... am I? I'm not sure if you mean you or Pufferfish. My issue was with Pufferfish and I left the vote on you for pressure. Before you claimed, I was actually debating whether or not to take the vote off. But with other's reactions to your claim as well and other evidence, I think I'll unvote now.

Since I'm allowed to use this, I'll point out that unvoted him. It was, however, a bit too late because the day had already ended before I was able to post from a computer. As I said, my vote remained on him for so long solely for pressure and my lack of access to a computer with internet. With what happened, I feel like a douchebag, but that was my main reason. I didn't think there would be another cop claim because I've heard that claiming is very rarely a good idea. As everyone's childish behavior persisted, I started to find it hard to believe that he was scum. He was just too desperate and that was a shitty situation to be thrown into in the first place.

Nerjin:

If you don't have advice for us, could you please just play with us? Perhaps not to the full extent of your ability, but be here at least. If we're all decent players in your mind, then just enjoy a pleasant game with friends. Or is this what goes against your style?

Persus:

Answer my question please.

[Persus13]

MOWE:

In fact, Mastahcheese was confirmed town, since 4maskwolf was a confirmed cop who said he inspected mastahcheese and he came up town.

also, can you please give a link? I wasn't aware that I had a question from you I hadn't answered.

[Nerjin]

I'm just gonna go through and answer as many questions that I missed as I can before I have to go home. Then I'll answer the rest. Unfortunately that means this will be in chronological order.

Nerjin: So you say you read through our posts? Did you actually read through our posts? Since I voted him for that. Yes. But if you didn't see, I stayed on him for multiple reasons, that kept compounding as the game went on.

Yes, I was trying to make a point because it didn't look like you  had read MOWE's

What are your thought on Makeinu flipping scum? Who were your top suspects prior to N1? Who are they now?

I was pretty fuckin' excited when I saw it. It's not often you see a proper Mafia Lynch on day 1 [seriously, don't expect it as a rule] but that was pretty neat. I hadn't really formed a top suspect that I recall. Right now? I'd say Imp due to her flailing accusational attempt to start a bandwagon. I don't want to say she's scum though because I honestly think she's better than that.

Is this style something you're still experimenting with and figuring out how to use?  Would you recommend it to others?  How much of it feels like Scumhunting to you, and how much reporting observations and providing feedback?  Or is reporting and feedback a major part of Scumhunting?  Can you suggest how your style could be read to interpret it for intent and alignment?  It really looks like a wall to me this game.

Ooh, I like this because it's something I need to think about in terms of EVERY game I'm going to be in. Yes, it is still a highly experimental playstyle to me and I think I'm coming up on a couple of flaws of it [as well as not using it (likely for the remained of this game though it should be back in my next one.)]. Anyways I wouldn't recommend it for other players as I'm still not sure about it. Oh... 

You mean how I'm playing this game and not the overall formatting don't you. No, I'm playing pretty poorly due to me trying to teach more than play. I guess you guys have outgrown the need for that and, as a result, I'll be back to actually playing tonight [not yet though]. It IS pretty helpful to me when it comes to keeping track of everyone though so I'm probably gonna keep experimenting with it. If it falls short then I apologize.

Oh, and Nerjin, we haven't heard from you since Imp and I came into the game. Does this effect your game plan at all, and did anything we have done force you to reevaluate the people in question.

Eh, no more than replacements generally do. Also, bolding is easier to notice than italics so just keep that in mind.

Persus13, Nerjin: please explain your use of shorten in this situation.  Why was getting 4maskwolf lynched as quickly as possible and ending all further chances for information to be gained this day, from anyone more important than ending this day asap to you?


Nerjin, you have a few questions waiting for your attention.  Some are from me, but there's more than just those.  Do you think you'll be answering them anytime soon?

Because I don't take well to that kind of emotional appeal and... well honestly jerk behavior. Acting like a four year old when you're losing makes the game worse for everyone. If he wanted to end it early like that who was I to stop him. Acting like that only convinced me he was scum. He did apologize but... *Shrug* hindsight and all.

Not as soon as I'd have liked I'll admit.

So that was all the questions towards me that I saw up until the end of the day. if you posted a question to me after that please re-ask it and I'll answer it up front. As it stands I'll probably spend a few hours when I get home on moving past the 'teaching' phase and onto the actual playing phase. Yes, Imp, this includes answering questions from Day 3 that I have. [For I do see at least one]

[Nerjin]

Extend

Nerjin, I have a theory.  When the game opened, both our ICs found out they were Scum.  Both our ICs, being really nice people who wanted to help their newbies learn how to play but not wanting to wipe the floor with them, kind of 'panicked', said to each other in Scumchat, 'No way are we doing this to our newbies for real', and both decided to do the IC role right but play 'wrong', act Scummy to help teach the newbies what Scummy looks like.  You decided to do one sort of wrongness, the other IC did a different sort.

Is that why you are talking about inactivity, but being inactive?

Just a little tip to scum: Lack of active players makes it easier to win. BUT it makes the game boring, bland, and unforgettable. Yeah, lurking your way to victory will make it, y'know, easy but you'll feel much better about your victory if you win against people who are actually doing something.

That being said: Everyone should reread [at the very least skim] Days 1 and 2.

Are you giving advice to us, but 'backwards'?  Because if you're Town, you're part of the problem that you're talking about.  Except for your interaction with 4maskwolf's claim near the end of D2 you did almost nothing D2.  And now you're doing almost nothing again.

Almost nothing except good IC advice, oh, and telling us that "[the Scum] will feel much better about winning if [the Scum] wins against people who are actually doing something."

Feeling even guiltier about being IC and Scum?  Is it bothering you when you do talk to us, because you are showing us what it looks like when a Scum is "lurking your way to victory will make it, y'know, easy"?

Does this theory hit home to you?  Do you think it's a reasonable theory?  Do you think it's true?

Alright, let's reply to this in full now since I have basically unlimited time. Since you are Imp and are, therefore, a player I greatly respect as a pretty competent player I have only this to say: I'm very disappointed in what you're doing here.

Imp is a player who, though almost needlessly verbose, is quite competent despite her relative newness. Thus I'm holding her to a higher standard. This attack and vote [obviously a pressure vote] had absolutely ZERO evidence behind it other than 'This sounds like a plausible situation people might jump at if I phrase it properly.'

A pure attack of opportunity that she probably developed within ten minutes of posting it. It DOES sound like something that might happen. EXCEPT that it would be a GROSS violation of my IC duties. Despite my other shortcomings I follow the spirit of ICing very seriously. I am here to teach. I have done just that.

Let me be totally frank with you Imp your theory is trash as is your reason for voting me. I'm curious about something: Why did you put it forward and vote me on absolutely NO evidence?

[Nerjin]

I suck... Remember kids, the preview button is your friend.

Nerjin, what are your views on this theory? Why do you think things worked out the way they have?

Your theory that scum didn't kill night 1 due to internet restrictions they may have had? It has its merits I suppose but isn't really relevant in any way I can see. Either we have a JK or we don't We shouldn't be looking for a JK or a cop [had ours still been alive]. We are town. We shouldn't care who our power roles are. Instead we should focus on finding the people who want to find our power roles. That is to say, Scum.

Why have you been ignoring these questions for so long?  You appear to be completely cherry picking what you do and don't react to, and you are ignoring a lot of the game after 4maskwolf and I entered play.  Why?

I believe I've answered this before so I'll keep this short: Everyone seemed competent enough so the game became less "Teach the newbs" and more "Play mafia with very few power roles in the game". *Shrug*. As for 'ignoring' questions I kept forgetting to actually answer them. Totally my fault on that one I'll admit.

[Silthuri]

Nerjin:

Nerjin, what are your views on this theory? Why do you think things worked out the way they have?

Your theory that scum didn't kill night 1 due to internet restrictions they may have had? It has its merits I suppose but isn't really relevant in any way I can see. Either we have a JK or we don't We shouldn't be looking for a JK or a cop [had ours still been alive]. We are town. We shouldn't care who our power roles are. Instead we should focus on finding the people who want to find our power roles. That is to say, Scum.

I wasn't actually looking for the JK and when did I mention internet restrictions? ...Oh. So you're implying that I think just because someone didn't post, they're scum? I'm just trying to use what happened to try to prove my theory that one of the lurkers is scum. I don't care if there is one or not. I care only about what it means for the scum. I have virtually nothing to go on right now and this seemed like the best way to go. Although the more I talk about it, the more ridiculous it sounds. I'm going to drop this theory and try to find something more solid to go on...

Persus:

MOWE:

In fact, Mastahcheese was confirmed town, since 4maskwolf was a confirmed cop who said he inspected mastahcheese and he came up town.

also, can you please give a link? I wasn't aware that I had a question from you I hadn't answered.

The question be here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133728.msg4942367#msg4942367

Also, when I spoke of mastahcheese, I know he was confirmed town in many different ways. But on D1, we didn't know that. That's sort of the thing I was going for.

I'm not even going to pursue this theory any more. The more you guys question it the stupider it sounds... I'll revisit some old suspicions and see what I can dig up.

[Persus13]

When Nerjin's been playing instead of giving IC advice, he's done a decent job playing as town. My only problem with him is that he's lurking a lot, which I think is more attributable to real life stuff than anything else.

[Sinlessmoon]

Woohoo! I am done my exams, I will try and post something soon now that I have a bunch of free time.

[Persus13]

Woohoo! I am done my exams, I will try and post something soon now that I have a bunch of free time.

Glad to hear it.

[Superblackcat]

Persus

Alright. So, each of you give me why you continued to vote him, when it was pretty obvious there was no other Cop claims.

But we really can't do anything right now but to wait for people to trickle back... or for this game to die.

There is three people still here right now. And I don't feel a real scum feel from any of you.

I don't believe you answered that ever.

[Persus13]

I wasn't aware that something in there required answering.

[Nerjin]

Persus

Alright. So, each of you give me why you continued to vote him, when it was pretty obvious there was no other Cop claims.

[Persus13]

Persus

Alright. So, each of you give me why you continued to vote him, when it was pretty obvious there was no other Cop claims.

I've already responded to this question at least once, today, and continuing to ask won't change it. I was suspicious of 4mask because of how he seemed to be quoting another player's case, and he claimed cop strangely, when there wasn't a lot of pressure on him, which seemed like he was panicky scum. He went about it wrong and seemed more like scum claiming cop than a real cop.

Now, why aren't you scumhunting? Why are you just asking people for their reasons for their actions, and doing NOTHING ELSE?