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Author Topic: Paranormal 23 - Game Over!  (Read 142568 times)

Persus13

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #615 on: December 20, 2013, 05:14:30 pm »

Anyone else think SBC's a kook?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #616 on: December 20, 2013, 05:16:41 pm »

With two shields he has to be an alien of some sort, either Operative or Exterminator.
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Persus13

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #617 on: December 20, 2013, 05:17:44 pm »

With two shields he has to be an alien of some sort, either Operative or Exterminator.
Okay.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #618 on: December 20, 2013, 07:17:52 pm »

The Whiteboard
makeinu: Persus13, Tiruin
Superblackcat: Jim Groovester, makeinu, Toaster
Tiruin: Caz, ToonyMan



Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday
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makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #619 on: December 20, 2013, 08:16:22 pm »

I am technically town aligned. Note, Technically. I'm not a dopp.

Hmm, an Alien that's technically Town aligned that has a night action and two tech slots, but no visible role.

Nope, sorry, I don't see it.

If you're the Agent Operative, you have ZERO reason not to claim. If you're the Survivor, you have ZERO reason not to claim.

At least we know that, if your claim of starting with a Shield is correct, you're not a Spore Spreader.

Where'd you get the second one from anyway, hmm?
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makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #620 on: December 20, 2013, 08:17:29 pm »

Forgot to add: if you're anything else, you're not even technicallt Town aligned.
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In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

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Superblackcat

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #621 on: December 21, 2013, 02:12:11 am »

Let me rephrase that, I'm not 'technically' Town aligned... I could be...

Shields
I have a natural one, and received the other one
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Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #622 on: December 21, 2013, 02:25:39 am »

I think Tiruin is undergoing some form of villainous breakdown.
wat. :I

Reading up. Net errors are hilarious and annoying.
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Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #623 on: December 21, 2013, 02:28:13 am »

I said back "Information received" and nothing else.  I didn't trust him enough to claim anything back, so I let him know I had gotten his message and left it at that.
...Huh. Ok?

I want a clean game as anyone else, and now knowing that the assassin bot is used (really, Caz. You used it on RangerCado without even letting him speak?!). Very smart move.
EXPOUND ON WHY YOU DID SO EVEN THOUGH EVIDENCE MOSTLY POINTS TO YOU AS INNOCENT!

PS: Toaster: Confirm for me. RangerCado has the Surveillance System, aye?

The second is answered above (yes.)  The first shows you aren't paying attention- Caz didn't bot Ranger.  Jim did (you know, the guy he spend half of D2 going after hard?)
[/quote]
...I was under the notion that Jim can only steal Minds, and not items. It is very weird that he stole Caz' item, but it makes sense that if your mind is stolen, so is how your operation of said item.

Jim: Redirect that question to you. Why did you kill Cado without letting him speak? Why did you waste an assassin bot? If you did answer this, link me please.

Quote
This is interesting.  I'd love to hear more detail from both of you, actually, no.  I want to hear it straight from SBC first.
I literally can't say anything else but that, because that's everything.
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Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #624 on: December 21, 2013, 02:31:09 am »

Roleclaim:
I am who I am. I protected Imp N1 - due to my personal outlook on her and her analytical acumen, my claim and my actions D2 were to inspire quite much anything, I didn't have a goal for my claim, as it had no value other than me being a literal martyr. I sorta played a gambit that Imp was town, hence my defense of her--Though, I suspect those who out me as scum because of that; sense being that if I'm scum, I don't blatantly defend my teammates on the noose when the case drops to that point (ie Previous suspicion raise on valid notion).

Honestly, I don't "out you" as scum because of that, but I find it odd that you admit privately that your instinct was that Imp was dopp, but don't admit the same publicly.
I wavered on my judgement on Imp ok?! >_<

Pro tip: If Tiruin was town, he'd be happy with the way things are going. There's only a couple of suspects left. Instead, the defensiveness has been turned to eleven. SBC's claim deserves checking out, but it's a simple measure to block them. Did anyone else other than Tiruin hear SBC's claim of a tech field? If it's actually true, it's slightly worrying. Would be nice if SBC could clear it up.

7 town remain, 1 dopp. (Do survivors count among town numbers? Unsure on this).

Even if Tiruin flips town, we still have a couple freelynches. The info we gain during this time will narrow out the suspects for an inevitable town win. Pretty damn sure about this.

I'm happy the way things are going. I'm not happy with being lynched on grounds of 'elimination'. It's stupid and a weak reasoning to follow--one because I know my darn role. Two because people aren't thinking. Three is that you really are a jerk with words.
@Orange: You really aren't thinking. >_> If I flip town, what will anyone gain? One less darn suspect, and no lead towards who else is scum! Do I see anyone else suspecting those who are 'cleared via elimination'? No.
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Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #625 on: December 21, 2013, 02:43:41 am »

But your playstyle is not as amorphous as I believe you'd like to think. No one's is. We all have tells, just like in poker or any other mental game (all games are mental in the end).
I will be laughing at your face, then, given that you suspect me 'because I'm acting just like in BM Sprint'.
Cheesy excuse there. If my tells are the same, then doesn't that lead to speculation on your own analysis?

Quote
Yes, actually, it is. I spent some time last night hunting down roles where Tiruin was Town, and learning how she plays from that angle. You're much more aggressive in questioning under those circumstances. More to the point, you're more probing. And more uncertain. It shows. But more importantly, all metaknowledge aside, if you're really Town, you don't have any reason to be defensive, reactive, deflective. Because you're secure in the knowledge that, in the end, the role flip will tell your innocence. And I don't see that security.
Because you utterly fail to comprehend my viewpoint. I'm damn OK with myself being lynched for the good of the Town. I'm not in bleeding hell OK with being lynched UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. Going by process of elimination is the worst process at this point given how the game goes--I know my role and I'm trying to sway that sense out in lieu of any other process of scumhunting, but that process is just rapt with fallibility. If that process is the way in how you'll justify a lynch for tonight, then I already say that its a waste of a day!

I cannot see how you can't see that judging by the 'stability' of how all you are safe by that process.

Quote
Maybe that's the amorphous playstyle you reference. Maybe you really are Town, and you're just playing overly cautious to throw everyone off. If that's the case, it's working.
Uh huh? Yeah right. The same votes still stand, and their origins, though rooted in stoopidity placeholding, just dig down to the idea of 'process of elimination', wherein nobody explains that said process.

Quote
And please, do not lecture me on using the scientific method in scum hunting. I'm the one quoted Occam's Razor yesterday while hunting Imp, remember? Science, and logic, hung Imp by her own petard yesterday.
And Toony's claim. That played a role on her then; Occam's Razor is only a factor in understanding how Imp got lynched, and by my perspective, I don't see that as a viable factor in playing her lynch out given how I saw her posts and logic.

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Where do you get that I lied to Persus? I never told Persus anything about talking to Jim, nor vice versa. As much as I wanted them to trust each other, they didn't, publicly and privately, and had either known that I was talking to the other, they'd have lost all trust in me entirely. They didn't ask, I didn't tell.
He said that you told him you were an Observant Guard! How can you miss this?! You didn't address it at all despite berating me (in a nice way and thanks) about my understanding.

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Here's my last bit on why I think you're acting suspicious. Games here don't require you to survive to win with your side, only that your side win. Were I in your shoes my response to what you are facing now, if I had no better argument than what you've presented would be, simply, lynch me.
I. Bloody. Know. That. I'm arguing against the lynch because the process how it is rationalized is wrong in my eyes. That equals an error in how its being made, and how you being the one who keeps on pressing it under the notion of 'town shouldn't care because they're winning', in which how I understand it, gives credence to that fallibility!
I'm ok with throwing away my life. I'm not ok with throwing it away in vain under those reasons!
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Tell me, Town Tiruin, why isn't that your approach?
See above.

Quote
Quote from: Referencing Toaster
Makeinu:  You're correct that I haven't.  How about if we get to tomorrow with no leads, Jim mindsteals me?
Because that's what Town would say. Plus, by deliberately lynching one uncleared suspect and blocking the other, we force the third (Toaster, for those playing the home game) to not kill in the event we're all wrong, for fear of outing themselves.
Ooo, "that's what Town would say" indeed. If Toaster was scum, and Jim mindsteals him, then there'd be an additional scumbag present! I don't even know if Toaster is Town and I'm leaning Town on him just because of the probability that there is only one last darn Dopp left.
That, and nobody bothers to tell me if a Mindstealer can Mindsteal after having stolen a role.

Quote
Thank you for putting Superblackcat right back at the top of my list, just where Max White had left him before.

Two shields. Not one, but two. Started with one, gained another. I'll take that as a tacit admission of Alien. And I hit one of those shields last night, which allegedly explains the "No role" result. Okay, fine, which Shield did I hit, pray tell?
What he told me, and what I inferred, was that you had a tech-something and said shield blocked it.
Color me confused on the same and why I really want SBC to talk.

Splitting post for better formatting.
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Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #626 on: December 21, 2013, 02:58:15 am »

Continuing on that case wherein I haven't read anything past makeinu's post.

This is what I asked SBC in PMs.
Quote
Hello luckyblackcat.

Regarding your role--I thank you for being critically-minded. However I have to inquire you about what you have--if you will not tell me your role; this helps my case as it starts to disperse those rumors and exposes who exactly is lying.

Queries (you can just say No):
> Did you trade tech with anyone else?
> Are you an Alien? You have my full word-regardless of my alignment-that I shall not speak against it. You may lie here, as anywhere else, though my notes will surely be stymied by this action.
> You may note I'm talking in full honesty with you--that's because I've nothing to lose. Aid me, or aid anyone else by selling this information. If you're town, as you say--then claim for the best of it. If scum, then falseclaim--I cannot stand by and see a probable newbie to massclaiming flail around without giving impartial advice.

> You mentioned 4 roles which may have those shields. Why the exacts?
His reply:
Quote
a) no trading

b) I may or may not harm the town, but am technically allied with the town.

c) Did I actually guess correctly? It was more of a flippant reply, I guessed ;P.
...So yeah I'm confused. What role can be "technically allied", other than an alien?







An assassin bot will not effect a player with an anti-tech field.
Jim...why...


@Tiruin:
Sorry about throwing role-power around as evidence instead of scum-hunting more.  But there's only one dopp left (and an alien I'm guessing) to stand in the way of almost seven town players that have all claimed at this point.  To ignore our powers is silly!
Sorry for being mean to you too! D:

Quote
I don't mind if SBC or Tiruin is lynched.  I'll hold mine on Tiruin for now though.  Depending on who's lynched I'll follow through with the according Makeinu plan.
>_>
<_<
Well, fine, I'll go with you here on why you want your vote staying on me. Just..look in between the lines back there.




Alright Makeinu, I'll tell you what I told Tir.

I have 2 shields, I thought you had a scanner, because That'd be the reason why you hit a shield. I'm not sure what you do have, but that would be the only reason why you came up with a NR.

If that didn't happen. I guess these shields may extend farther to what I gleaned from when I skimmed through the roles...

I am technically town aligned. Note, Technically. I'm not a dopp.

After Tiruin's pressure all of last night, and then her blatant reveal of everything that I told her, I think my conclusion that people aren't to be trusted with important information is right. Thus, no information will come out.

No, I will not role-claim. I'm fine with dying tomorrow, But there are certain things I wish to do tonight.

It'd be nice of you guys if you could extend that far.

Alright.
Kittycat!

I told everything out because I wanted to be sure of you--its more of an alignment thing than not. I want Town to get the best weapons they have against the last scum here, and given their elusiveness, I want them to be prepared. I want you to roleclaim or you'd be the target for tonight (either way, I'd want ToonyMan to block either myself or him, and Persus to Guard Toony.)
@Orange: That is a baseless conclusion! What I asked is information; something to give clarity to this nebulous cloud we're all wading in, and if you are TOWN ALIGNED, then you'd have no problem in claiming at all! I can protect you tonight to aid your goal given the technicality of being town aligned if that matters to you, but I suspect you--and I did suspect you before--because you didn't claim despite saying you're town aligned.

That is all. Please do not not trust us because of what I did. (You can not trust me instead..because I don't want you to become cynical or jaded. Because what you say there sounds less of an in-game moment and more of a personal thing. :/)




No, I will not role-claim. I'm fine with dying tomorrow, But there are certain things I wish to do tonight.

This is not town behaviour. You fakeclaiming townie on top of that makes you almost as scummy as Tiruin.
...If..you...were..not..proven by Jim..then I'd be gunning for you right now for your...
Ugh.



Let me rephrase that, I'm not 'technically' Town aligned... I could be...

Shields
I have a natural one, and received the other one
*punches wall*
You COULD BE TOWN ALIGNED, then, is what you're saying, right? Which means its subjective based on your choice, right?

General Question: Any role can naturally have a shield-ish item, right?

How did you receive the other one? *blatant rolefish, go!*

..Erghgh. Ok, future tip. If you've a role that isn't aligned with anyone else, and who probably would LOVE to kill everyone else, then just say 'No, I'm not telling you because I don't trust you', with 'you' pertaining to the player as a role instead of the person, when you chat/talk behind the lines. If you're a survivor, then...I really can't see the reluctance to claim. Survivors are more benevolent than not in any matter.

If you're an alien, however, and if you know you're up for the lynch, then I'd most likely advice you to claim--if it is benevolent, then I grant my word to protect you tonight, and to ask you to...well, do whatever unless you aren't town-aligned.

...However if you're the Exterminator..uh. I..would like to talk to you about that post-game.
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Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #627 on: December 21, 2013, 03:38:31 am »

Last post before I go.

With two shields he has to be an alien of some sort, either Operative or Exterminator.
I've to expand the various roles here. He could also be a Survivor who has a natural shield and picked one of those shields from the small tech slot.

If an Operative...then where has the Exty kills been going?

EDIT:
Quote
Agent Operative
    Visible Role: Operative
    Race: Alien
    Goal: Based on Action
    Rules: This Operative is working with the government and has been sent along to assist an Agent in aiding the town. The Operative is not told who the Agent is until the First Night, however. In addition, the government has no way of knowing if the Agent is still human. The Operative should use caution when contacting the agent.
    Tech: 1 Medium and 2 Small Slots
    Victory: Town wins
Superblackcat: Are you this guy?

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makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #628 on: December 21, 2013, 03:44:33 am »

Quote
Uh huh? Yeah right. The same votes still stand, and their origins, though rooted in stoopidity placeholding, just dig down to the idea of 'process of elimination', wherein nobody explains that said process.

Check the vote count again. The votes haven't stood, they've shifted. Superblackcat is the current lynch target and will stay such until he starts making sense. I, for one am not going to dance around and play twenty questions to figure out what he is. This is all I need to know:

Let me rephrase that, I'm not 'technically' Town aligned... I could be...

There is no "could be". If you're not Town aligned, then you need to be working for the Town's goal, or you're a threat.

Right now, all I see is threat.

Quote
Shields
I have a natural one, and received the other one

From whom? When? Why? Explain why your shield blocked my role check?

Quote
He said that you told him you were an Observant Guard! How can you miss this?! You didn't address it at all despite berating me (in a nice way and thanks) about my understanding.

I was going to ask if you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you simply not paying attention, but then I read Persus' post again, and that's wrong:

What kind of inspector are you?

Detective. Given the "public role" aspect of the dopps, I expect not actually all that useful.

Quote
Also, I plan on leading a lynch on Jim tomorrow if Sinlessmoon is lynched and turns up town.

He does have a solid case for a lynch on Sinlessmoon, even you have to agree with that (and are publicly).

Also, are we not supposed to CC Meph on these?
Yeah, we are, it's just that I have to type in his name everytime I reply to you and I forgot to do that. Is here a reply all button?

Also, I'm Observant.

Quoting Meph's reply since it's a forum mechanics matter addressed, not a game matter, original broken quote tag and all:

Also, are we not supposed to CC Meph on these?
Yeah, we are, it's just that I have to type in his name everytime I reply to you and I forgot to do that. Is here a reply all button?

Also, I'm Observant.

Yes, as a matter of fact there is a reply all button.

(Sorry, the combination of that question and the guard type is kind of funny.)
[/quote]

Persus: Why the deceptive post?

Quote
I will be laughing at your face, then, given that you suspect me 'because I'm acting just like in BM Sprint'.
Cheesy excuse there. If my tells are the same, then doesn't that lead to speculation on your own analysis?

I never said you were 'acting just like in BM Sprint'. I said your style was different in games where you played Town. Sorry, yeah, meta, whatever. How do you learn to play against a pro? You watch them play. Sports team coaches spend countless hours watching their opponent's games. Pro poker players study other pro poker players intently, watching for the tells that show while they know the cards in play, so they can watch for those tells when they don't know the hand.

And that's why I suspect you. You don't have that self-assuredness that I expect to see from Town right now. You continue to be defensive, deflective, missing vital information, et cetera.

Quote
And Toony's claim. That played a role on her then; Occam's Razor is only a factor in understanding how Imp got lynched, and by my perspective, I don't see that as a viable factor in playing her lynch out given how I saw her posts and logic.

Oh, her logic was good, very good, I won't fault that. Occam's Razor came to play when I had to decide whether her being dopp required more or less assumption than Caz being dopp and Jim's story a complete fabrication. Turns out it was less. And I saw in her posts a lot of soft logic, like she already had an idea who she was looking for and why, except that she was missing some details and fishing for them. Like role-claims.

Notice how her list, in response to me, her summary, during Day One, had only two slight Town reads? On two pretty blatantly Town players, in review and retrospect? I asked myself why, and all that I could come up with was that she already knew who was aligned where for the most part. Namely, she knew who not to target as scum, because she knew the scum.

To paraphrase:

Makeinu:

Imp:
You post impressive walls of text. While I certainly appreciate the play advice, I'm having some difficulties in parsing any actual substance out of a lot of what I've linked there. Would it be considered rude if I requested you summarize your suspicions?

It's not rude.  I try to post my Scum/Town list and reasoning before the end of each Day.  Never know if you're going to be here the next Day or not, say it toDay or maybe not at all.

  • Toaster:   Medium lean Scum.

  • TheDarkStar:  Medium lean Scum.

  • makeinu:   Medium lean Scum.

  • Sinlessmoon:    Low lean Scum.

  • Persus13:   Null read, slight lean Scum.

  • Jim Groovester:  Null read, slight lean Scum.

  • Max White:    Null read.

  • Tiruin:  Null read.

  • Caz:    Null read, very slight lean Town.

  • RangerCado:   Slight lean Town.

Notice, too, the fairly obvious bus there on TheDarkStar, on a day when he was acting blatantly scum.

You still see nothing, in retrospect, that points to her having showed scum Day One, even the slightest bit. Her four highest scum reads were her scum buddy desperately asking to be bused, and three solid Town power roles. On Jim and Max (now Cat), the confirmed Aliens, null reads. Same for you, but you're down there on the Town side of the spectrum, aren't you?

So, yeah, more meta. A confirmed dopp role flip paints her words in a new light. Doesn't it.

Quote
What he told me, and what I inferred, was that you had a tech-something and said shield blocked it.
Color me confused on the same and why I really want SBC to talk.

I don't color you confused at all. I very much want an answer as well, but so far, none is forthcoming. And barring that, along with the admissions above, Superblackcat is the ideal lynch today, and even then I doubt we're hitting the last dopp, merely eliminating a different threat.

Again, Superblackcat, which shield are you purporting I hit? Where did you get the second? What's your game, Mr. Might Be On The Town's Side Or Might Not I Don't Really Know And I'm Not Going To Say?

Quote
He could also be a Survivor who has a natural shield and picked one of those shields from the small tech slot.

Survivor only has one Small Tech Slot, and I see nothing about a natural shield there. Regardless, no reason not to claim this. It's harmless to the Town.

Quote
Agent Operative
    Visible Role: Operative
    Race: Alien
    Goal: Based on Action
    Rules: This Operative is working with the government and has been sent along to assist an Agent in aiding the town. The Operative is not told who the Agent is until the First Night, however. In addition, the government has no way of knowing if the Agent is still human. The Operative should use caution when contacting the agent.
    Tech: 1 Medium and 2 Small Slots
    Victory: Town wins
Superblackcat: Are you this guy?

No reason not to claim this either, as I stated before. That he refuses to claim paints a more dangerous picture, because this role is helpful to Town unless, and only unless, Toaster is dopp, and SBC chooses that alignment.

And if it's not dangerous, then he's jeopardizing the Town by forcing us to waste our efforts on him.

God damn it. That's a lot of WIFOM.
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In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 3 brings death and release
« Reply #629 on: December 21, 2013, 04:29:56 am »

Tiruin, if you're so insistent that this is the wrong way things should go down, then what do you suggest?

Jim: Redirect that question to you. Why did you kill Cado without letting him speak? Why did you waste an assassin bot? If you did answer this, link me please.

He spoke on Day 2. With few suspects left I shot the one I felt strongest about. Allow me to remind you of my attacks on RangerCado during Day 2.

Psssssh, wasted. After I lied about Caz's role it confirmed him as a Military Scientist. It also eliminated one of my suspects. Hardly wasted at all!

Let me rephrase that, I'm not 'technically' Town aligned... I could be...

Ohmigosh just claim already.

You can either die today because you're not claiming or you can live, depending on your role claim.

Shields
I have a natural one, and received the other one

Exterminators start with a natural shield, their choice on whether it's Mind Shield or Anti-Tech Field.

Oh, I know, you must be an Exterminator.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.
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