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[Persus13]

Unvote

Just got back from a busy day. I'll be on later do stuff. Hello Toony! So Imp got blocked last night. Any other details you can add (ex. flavor)?

Did the Wednesday extend go through?

[RangerCado]

Okay, starting at the top of page 27 for this post so bear with me.

Persus:

I got annoyed at Sinlessmoon and decided he need to active or die. Imp is going to respond regardless of whether or not I vote her, and she knows I think she's scummy, so why do I need to vote her to get my questions answered?

Voting someone adds pressure and can lead to slip ups in a response. Voting someone who will actually answer your questions is much smarter than voting someone who wasn't replaced until now. This is a silly answer and you know it.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm in favor of either killing or replacing him, and have said so multiple times by now. If he gets replaced, I'll return to my other targets. But so far, that hasn't seemed likely to happen, so I'd rather cut the dead weight, so I don't have to worry about it being a dopp.

So why not wait until theres no alternative? Why not use your time and vote to pressure and hunt more effectively? It doesn't matter if there was little activity at the time, you still pressure them and it will add to your hunting power.

How Sinlessmoon would lurk to victory.
SInlessmoon is scum with two partners. SInless doesn't post at all. We lynch the scummiest people in the game, but Sinless is lurking and so gets ignored. Eventually, Lylo hits, Sinless is still lurking, but there's no info on him so they lynch the next scummiest player, who turns up town. Scum wins!

Well, he only has 1 partner now if he was at all scum, now Toonyman (whos claim I trust since I don't see a reason why you wouldn't claim that given the risks and information.) And if someone was lurking that badly, we could do a player vote or something to forcibly kick him out. Besides, we were waiting on him getting replaced anyway!

I support this, but until he does get replaced, I'm still voting him.

We have 2-4 days, but you're right, I should pursue other avenues at the moment.

So why not move your vote to somewhere productive instead of contradicting your statements in the same post?
Tiruin: Mostly his lack of using his vote effectively, and his personal insults he uses for scumhunting which I always have problems with. And EXTEND for wednesday because we need it.
Jim:

While I'd rather lynch scum suspects, we'll gain more information from sinlessmoon's death or replacement.

I made the case that Sinlessmoon is dead weight to town and should either be lynched or replaced. You have yet to prove me wrong and have actually agreed with me. How am I being stupid?

These are rationalizations of your vote on Sinlessmoon. Those are potential advantages of having him gone, but those are not the correct justification for your vote.

You should only vote somebody if you think they are scum. I do not get the impression that you believe this is the case. If you want to lynch him because he's dead weight, then that's scummy of you.

So if you weren't voting him for being dead weight, useless, and needing information via death due to deciding to be lazy with your hunting, what exactly were you voting him for? Because Persus seemed to describe exactly those reasons for makeinu, you, and him.

But it's funny because I call TheDarkStar myopic, and then Toaster repeats one of his questions in a huge font, so it's like Toaster's trying to get TheDarkStar's attention as if he actually were myopic and and and and and get it?

Insulting someone on a personal level is NOT funny Jim. It can be called a hate crime and I am TIRED of every game being you insulting people every other post. JUST STOP!
Toonyman: Although I see no reason to not believe your claim of blocking someone, whos to say there aren't other ability blocking roles currently in play? So if Imp were to flip town, what would you do then?

[makeinu]

Provisionally, my vote is remaining.

Could you state why?
I could rationalize how Toony's point would either be a fact or not (a ploy to get another lynched) but I'd like to hear your idea on it first.

I did, in that same post:

I wasn't going to claim my role until I realized there wasn't a mafia kill last night.  Replacees usually get less pressure and there wasn't a reason to role-claim just because I am the lynch candidate right now.

Okay, so, given that replacees generally get less pressure because, obviously, they likely don't know the thought processes guiding the actions of the player they replaced, I'm still curious what your defense would have been without laying a role claim, especially one of such magnitude.

Also, EXTEND to Wednesday. I'd very much like to hear more, from ToonyMan and from Imp or his replacement. Or from anyone that can back any of this, if possible.

[...]Imp should be lynched today.

Why?  I'm a Psychic Warden and blocked him Night 1.  There was no dopp kill Night 1.  I wasn't initially going to role-claim, but with some pretty incriminating evidence in front of me I see no reason not to.  Care to explain, Imp?

What if Imp flipped as town given that notion?

Then we'd know ToonyMan either lied or assumed wrongly, but I'd rather figure that out before we let this slide.

Jim:

While I'd rather lynch scum suspects, we'll gain more information from sinlessmoon's death or replacement.

I made the case that Sinlessmoon is dead weight to town and should either be lynched or replaced. You have yet to prove me wrong and have actually agreed with me. How am I being stupid?

These are rationalizations of your vote on Sinlessmoon. Those are potential advantages of having him gone, but those are not the correct justification for your vote.

You should only vote somebody if you think they are scum. I do not get the impression that you believe this is the case. If you want to lynch him because he's dead weight, then that's scummy of you.

So if you weren't voting him for being dead weight, useless, and needing information via death due to deciding to be lazy with your hunting, what exactly were you voting him for? Because Persus seemed to describe exactly those reasons for makeinu, you, and him.

Yeah, no. Persus described his reasons for voting. I described my own reasons for voting, repeatedly. Is there a reason you continue to ignore this?

You're not the only one, but you're the one I'm asking right now, because it's freakin' annoying!!

[ToonyMan]

@Jim:

Imp? Why Imp?

He probably seemed like a good target given his bad arguments towards Toaster and you.


@RangerCado:

Toonyman: [/b]Although I see no reason to not believe your claim of blocking someone, whos to say there aren't other ability blocking roles currently in play? So if Imp were to flip town, what would you do then?

It's certainly possible Imp is town, but I find it more possible she's a dopp.  They seem to be replacing out though...


Anyway, as promised, general impressions on everybody and everyone:

Most scum

Imp - Day 1 attacks were odd, ended up voting DarkStar the dopp but can't say I can use that as town evidence after S6...currently think they're a dopp because of lack of kill but they're replacing out!
Tiruin - I'm just going to take a while guess and say they're the Caz kidnapper, it seems like a Tiruin-thing to be true
RangerCado - Defending Imp a lot.  "Can you expound on why your suspicious of Imp more?" at Persus. "...So your suspicious of Imp, partially because his scum list is different than yours?" at Makeinu.
Jim Groovester - It's hard to tell
Superblackcat - I'm not sure what they're doing but they replaced Max White recently so there's not as much to go off of though RVS-type questions on Day 2 isn't so great
Persus13 - seems pretty sure Imp is scum as well, and I have to agree there, their starting post for D2 is really fishy though (don't do this)
Caz - currently abducted, could be a dopp (which explains the lack of kill) but you can't vote somebody who isn't here
Toaster - I noticed that Toaster has been guiding Makeinu like a scum mentor, but he's right that DarkStar's actions don't make sense for it to be Makeinu scum and so Toaster doesn't look so bad either
makeinu - I don't see anything particularly suspicious and DarkSide's actions don't make that any harder to see

Least scum

[Persus13]

Please expound to me how one such as Sinlessmoon would be scum in that scenario given what he said? Given you being a core player last D1, I'd also like to know what you thought about my 'spat' with Max.

I thought Max acted oddly, especially when he lashed out at you for what I saw as a  reasonable question. What scenario?

All of you: Restating so you won't miss it. What makes lurking a better priority than anything else?

I just got fed up with Sinlessmoon's lurking. I got really annoyed that he wasn't playing but refused to be replaced and I voted him so there wouldn't be another "I should really stop lurking" post followed by several more days of silence, and because he was dead weight. Now I've wasted the weekend, I should pursue other avenues.

Extend

Since I'm busy and it looks like Sinlessmoon's getting replaced, I'd like to have longer.

wat.
It's a 2 on you, 3 on Sin.
What's the last bit about?

I'd like to have a longer day, because I wasted the weekend and because I'm busy and stressed out.

While I'd rather lynch scum suspects, we'll gain more information from sinlessmoon's death or replacement.

I made the case that Sinlessmoon is dead weight to town and should either be lynched or replaced. You have yet to prove me wrong and have actually agreed with me. How am I being stupid?

These are rationalizations of your vote on Sinlessmoon. Those are potential advantages of having him gone, but those are not the correct justification for your vote.

You should only vote somebody if you think they are scum. I do not get the impression that you believe this is the case. If you want to lynch him because he's dead weight, then that's scummy of you.

So why do you think Sinless was scum?

and he's asked people to vote Sinlessmoon

How about you tell me where I have done this, because I'm pretty sure I haven't.

You asked Toaster why he wasn't voting Sinlessmoon because of his #1 scumtell, and you asked RangerCado to vote his suspicions, using Sinlessmoon as an example, but not makeinu who he also was suspicious of.

and told Toaster that one of Sinless's posts could be construed as being Toaster's #1 scumtell if you looked at it funny.

How is Sinlessmoon saying he should stop lurking, and then lurk even harder, not an example of a failure to deliver promised content?

Maybe RL stuff was stopping him from posting but he was under the false impression that he would be able to post a few days later? THat's my guess. I always thought Toaster's scumtell that applied to promising something, and then ignoring while continuing to post.

Persus:

You started out voting Max for tunneling- kind of a silly accusation for so early in the game.  You talked about him but didn't really put out much pressure after that.  When Max called for a replacement, you voted Sinlessmoon for his lurking until you realized so many other people were doing that; then you moved back to Max and that was pretty much it for you D1.

No, I voted him because he seemed to be doing the exact same thing he did D1 in Supernatural and he was scum, which was constantly attack one person (and I misused the word tunneling, should have used focus or something like that), then I kept my vote on him because he then attacked Tiruin for asking a question of clarification that I had no problem with being asked. I'd also like to point out that for a lot of D1 I was playing the BM Sprint and that was a higher priority to this game and I've also been busy with school. If you to see me when I'm playing as scum, I'd advise you or anyone in this game to read that. Also, I kept with my vote of Max because he was my top scumpick D1, and I had no reads on anyone else.

Sinless was lurking just as much D1 as he is now- why was Max a better vote then and Sinless a better vote now?  Note Max was replaced after all this.

Because Sinless was actually posting some and didn't want to be replaced.

So how do Tiruin and Jim stack up now?

Tiruin, I don't know. Reading Tiruin is not my strong suit. Jim has seemed scummy to me, for reasons I've explained to SBC, and partly because of gut feeling, which isn't completely trustworthy.

You then move your vote off Imp and onto a nonplaying lurker who already had votes- *before* Imp addresses any of your concerns.  It's almost like you don't care about them (because they're totally fake.)

I got annoyed at Sinlessmoon and decided he need to active or die. Imp is going to respond regardless of whether or not I vote her, and she knows I think she's scummy, so why do I need to vote her to get my questions answered?

It sure doesn't look like she's answering them now.

Well given that she's going to be replaced now, I can see why. Imp not answering my questions was getting me concerned.

So why not wait until theres no alternative? Why not use your time and vote to pressure and hunt more effectively? It doesn't matter if there was little activity at the time, you still pressure them and it will add to your hunting power.

Because I got angry and not much was happening and I was stressed out.

I support this, but until he does get replaced, I'm still voting him.

We have 2-4 days, but you're right, I should pursue other avenues at the moment.

So why not move your vote to somewhere productive instead of contradicting your statements in the same post?

I can pursue other avenues without voting people. But you're right, I did waste a weekend.

Persus13 - seems pretty sure Imp is scum as well, and I have to agree there, their starting post for D2 is really fishy though (don't do this)

I still don't understand that post is fishy.

Why?  I'm a Psychic Warden and blocked him Night 1.  There was no dopp kill Night 1.  I wasn't initially going to role-claim, but with some pretty incriminating evidence in front of me I see no reason not to.  Care to explain, Imp?

Imp, I know you don't have much time, but can you please take a few minutes to answer this question and respond to my post to you as that would be nice... you scum.

[Tiruin]

Imp, I know you don't have much time, but can you please take a few minutes to answer this question and respond to my post to you as that would be nice... you scum.

That's a pretty nice shift there Persus.
Ellipsis + weak accusation. How does this statement here reference your past note on your last vote?

Why're you taking Toony's note at point-blank range? What is your opinion about it..and on where your last vote was in reference to -now-?

[Tiruin]

Most scum

Imp - Day 1 attacks were odd, ended up voting DarkStar the dopp but can't say I can use that as town evidence after S6...currently think they're a dopp because of lack of kill but they're replacing out!
Tiruin - I'm just going to take a while guess and say they're the Caz kidnapper, it seems like a Tiruin-thing to be true
RangerCado - Defending Imp a lot.  "Can you expound on why your suspicious of Imp more?" at Persus. "...So your suspicious of Imp, partially because his scum list is different than yours?" at Makeinu.
Jim Groovester - It's hard to tell
Superblackcat - I'm not sure what they're doing but they replaced Max White recently so there's not as much to go off of though RVS-type questions on Day 2 isn't so great
Persus13 - seems pretty sure Imp is scum as well, and I have to agree there, their starting post for D2 is really fishy though (don't do this)
Caz - currently abducted, could be a dopp (which explains the lack of kill) but you can't vote somebody who isn't here
Toaster - I noticed that Toaster has been guiding Makeinu like a scum mentor, but he's right that DarkStar's actions don't make sense for it to be Makeinu scum and so Toaster doesn't look so bad either
makeinu - I don't see anything particularly suspicious and DarkSide's actions don't make that any harder to see

Least scum

Oh come on. I'm your #2 suspect because..you assume I'll abduct Caz..because...what? The only way I see that to be true is that I said I 'take "care" of absent people'.

...Which does make sense in hindsight, however I do have to note that Caz was active D1.

but you can't vote somebody who isn't here

...You can't?
*checks OP*
..Ah. >_>

[Persus13]

Imp, I know you don't have much time, but can you please take a few minutes to answer this question and respond to my post to you as that would be nice... you scum.

That's a pretty nice shift there Persus.
Ellipsis + weak accusation. How does this statement here reference your past note on your last vote?

Why're you taking Toony's note at point-blank range? What is your opinion about it..and on where your last vote was in reference to -now-?

It was a joke, because I was voting someone and politely asking them to answer some questions.

My opinion is that Imp being scum makes sense to me. Imp seemed to be acting odd this game, and certainly could be scum.

Just because Sinless blocked Imp doesn't necessarily mean she's scum. My pet theory was that someone abducted Caz and that's what disrupted the kill. What I'm worried about is that was a mind Stealer, and there's a third scum player now.

[makeinu]

Going back and reading D1, especially Imp's posts, I better understand two things:

1) why Sinlessmoon would have been motivated to target Imp N1, and

2) why ToonyMan rates Imp so high on the scum list, role-claim aside.


That's a nice list, ToonyMan, but I still want an answer to this question:

I'm still curious what your defense would have been without laying a role claim, especially one of such magnitude.

[Tiruin]

Ehh? How 'odd'? I got the feeling too, but I couldn't back it up at all.

Just because Sinless blocked Imp doesn't necessarily mean she's scum. My pet theory was that someone abducted Caz and that's what disrupted the kill. What I'm worried about is that was a mind Stealer, and there's a third scum player now.

Meaning Caz did the kill if that notion follows.
..And of all the abductors, I believe we'll just have to see tomorrow on the flavor (note on what I said earlier about being the Organ Harvester--notes of my presence were subtle..but darn obvious. Organs!)
@Bolded part: Wouldn't you mean 4, given how there're 3 dopps?

@Toaster/edit

Tiruin:

Caz

Why are you directing questions at a player who cannot answer them by dint of being game-absent?

...I've no excuse but to say that my mind didn't register as Caz not not being present at all.

[makeinu]

What I'm worried about is that was a mind Stealer, and there's a third scum player now.

@Bolded part: Wouldn't you mean 4, given how there're 3 dopps?

No.

Three. One dopp is dead. If there's a Mind Stealer, and Caz was dopp, then there's three scum, two dopp (Caz and ) and the Mind Stealer with Caz's Wincon adopted.

[Persus13]

What I'm worried about is that was a mind Stealer, and there's a third scum player now.

@Bolded part: Wouldn't you mean 4, given how there're 3 dopps?

No.

Three. One dopp is dead. If there's a Mind Stealer, and Caz was dopp, then there's three scum, two dopp (Caz and ) and the Mind Stealer with Caz's Wincon adopted.

So four scum players, but one dead, so three living scum players. Either way is right.

[makeinu]

So four scum players, but one dead, so three living scum players. Either way is right.

Yes, but that's all predicated on the assumption that Caz is a dopp, and that there's a Mind Stealer out there.

The second notion I'm prepared to accept. The first, less so.

[makeinu]

Yes, but that's all predicated on the assumption that Caz is a dopp, and that there's a Mind Stealer out there.

Something to note about this.

If both of those assumptions are true, that there is a Mind Stealer and Caz is a dopp, then it doesn't matter whether what ToonyMan is saying is true or nor with regards to Imp.

That is, if ToonyMan's role-claim is accurate, it still offers no proof that Imp is a dopp, because two people were targeted for role-blocking actions last night (abduction and straight role-block). That means that either one could be a dopp. Hell, both could for all we know. If ToonyMan's role-claim is false, then we can assume Imp is almost certainly not a dopp.

What we can maybe say is that Imp was not targeted by the dopps last night, since ToonyMan's claimed role stops the target from any night actions of their own, but does not protect them from being targeted by other night actions. Even that is uncertain, because if Caz is a dopp, we have no idea who was targeted at all.

Based on what I've read, and what I believe to be true, I believe that ToonyMan's role-claim is legitimate, Imp is a dopp, there is a Mind Stealer, and Caz is Town. Which means there's only one more dopp after Imp.

Assuming all of what I think I know is true, and only some of it is absolutely verified. The rest might be a web of lies.

Unvote.


Vote Imp.

[Jim Groovester]

Imp, can you at least confirm whether or not you were blocked last night?

So if you weren't voting him for being dead weight, useless, and needing information via death due to deciding to be lazy with your hunting, what exactly were you voting him for? Because Persus seemed to describe exactly those reasons for makeinu, you, and him.

Read the rest of the post you're quoting, wherein I reiterate to Tiruin my reasons for suspecting Sinlessmoon.

I have my own opinion on why I wanted to lynch Sinlessmoon, makeinu for the most part agreed with me, and Persus13 had his own reasons that were distinct from mine.

Insulting someone on a personal level is NOT funny Jim. It can be called a hate crime and I am TIRED of every game being you insulting people every other post. JUST STOP!

A hate crime?

Seriously?

You think I've been committing hate crimes because I play an aggressive mafia game.

These are rationalizations of your vote on Sinlessmoon. Those are potential advantages of having him gone, but those are not the correct justification for your vote.

You should only vote somebody if you think they are scum. I do not get the impression that you believe this is the case. If you want to lynch him because he's dead weight, then that's scummy of you.

So why do you think Sinless was scum?

Can none of you fucking read.

You'll notice that this is the very same post that you are responding to.

Have you no response to being called scummy because your reasons for voting Sinlessmoon are rationalizations and not suspicions?

and he's asked people to vote Sinlessmoon

How about you tell me where I have done this, because I'm pretty sure I haven't.

You asked Toaster why he wasn't voting Sinlessmoon because of his #1 scumtell, and you asked RangerCado to vote his suspicions, using Sinlessmoon as an example, but not makeinu who he also was suspicious of.

Nuh uh, I asked Toaster why he wasn't giving Sinlessmoon crap, which is not asking him to vote for Sinlessmoon. And I asked why RangerCado wasn't voting his suspects, which is also not asking him to vote for anybody.

Imp, I know you don't have much time, but can you please take a few minutes to answer this question and respond to my post to you as that would be nice... you scum.

If I didn't know any better I'd say you were doing a lot of bandwagoning.

Who knows, maybe I don't know any better and you are doing a lot of bandwagoning.