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[Persus13]

@Persus:

I'd like to point out that I'm voting SBC because he has know lied not once, but twice. He claimed to be an ordinary towny from Makeinu's inspect, something you yourself pointed out was false. Then he claimed to have converted RangerCado last night, something that couldn't have happened given the fact that it would have been revealed when he role flipped. Wait a second, did SBC convert you last night? Is that why you're defending him so much?

Many things wrong with the bolded part (its line of thought)

Stream of consciousness posting that may explain your line of thought. I was thinking along the lines of you defending to prevent your death, though, but you do have valid counterarguments. It's just your defense of SBC who has lied about his conversions and hoped no one would notice.

My opinions on players back then.
Toony seems town with a useful role. Protecting him is important.
Makeinu has claimed Detective. Useful role. If not scum he needs protecting.
Toaster-unknown
Tiruin-claimed Heroic Guard, not voting scum like normal, so town?
Jim-Mind Stealer, scum if Caz is.
Imp-Imp is actually scum? She was one of my suspects.
RangerCado-no clue

@bolded: Eh? 'Voting scum like normal'?
...Now for 'voting scum like normal', you tell me where I should place my vote. On the destined lynch, or on someone else to emphasize my suspicion on them?

I was more referring to the fact that, as scum, you are likely to vote your partners, and have bussed scum partners before. YOu aren't doing that this game.

Mainly the fact that he was involved in both scum lynches.

...This doesn't say much. I mean what inside that part makes him town? The same could be said to those who have the same votes in the same day on the lurkertracker (ZU's tracker is sooo updated I love it) which i can't recall now because its 3am! Woo~

Makeinu was the deciding vote behind Imp's lynch and helped get DarkStar lynched. That doesn't necessarily mean he's town.

Also...You have a messed up quote tag that should be addressed to makeinu, not me. The quote starting with "As Jim noted, I played at last-minute "vote gaming"[...]"
Yeah. It links to my post.
How did you even mess that up?! [This is hypothetical and tells you to be more cautious.]

Copy/Pasting the top quote part is something I do, as opposed to just using a generic quote with no link.

[...]It was only because I pointed out to Meph he had Jim voting twice that we ended up with an Imp lynch at all. I wonder why no one else pointed that out.

*checks back*
Huh. I didn't notice it.
From here, I see nothing from Meph to here, which is Meph's next post.
...*points at bolded part*
Whaa?

Meph mislisted Jim as voting both me and Imp when D2 ended, which resulted in NL. I told Meph about it and he reedited the day end post and fixed the problem, with Imp being lynched as a result of the error being fixed. If you notice, the votecount still lists SBC as voting both Makeinu and Toaster.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
makeinu: Persus13, Tiruin
Superblackcat: Caz, Jim Groovester, makeinu, ToonyMan, Toaster


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[makeinu]

makeinu Please no big pictures. Big pictures kill my tiny net and increase load times by 100% >_<
That, and I can't see it.

My apologies.

Meph: permission requested to edit the picture link out?

Everyone: I've listed everyone and see makeinu left in between. What made him innocent via that process of elimination y'all love hugging? That he spotted a Hive Mind?

Mainly the fact that he was involved in both scum lynches.

...This doesn't say much. I mean what inside that part makes him town? The same could be said to those who have the same votes in the same day on the lurkertracker (ZU's tracker is sooo updated I love it) which i can't recall now because its 3am! Woo~

Makeinu was the deciding vote behind Imp's lynch and helped get DarkStar lynched. That doesn't necessarily mean he's town.

At the danger of ... something ... I'll point out again that TheDarkStar was wearing a "Dopp's rool Hoomans drool" t-shirt and standing under a giant "SCUM HERE" neon sign, so I can't actually take credit for that.

Imp, however... Apparently I was the only one who saw Imp as scum, despite my making a logical case for why that pretty much had to be.

You weren't playing well, you were very lucky. It was only because I pointed out to Meph he had Jim voting twice that we ended up with an Imp lynch at all. I wonder why no one else pointed that out.

Tiruin's reasoning makes sense though. Toonyman and me seem Town from behavior yesterday. Toaster seems Town from his inspect clearing me, the top lynch pick last night. Jim and Caz both seem town, and Jim's goal is to win and can easily change sides if he wanted to, and he didn't want to. Right now town are up so it's reasonable that Jim would stay town if he was town, which he seems to be doing. Finally, there's Tiruin. I feel that Scum Tiruin would have scumhunted her buddies more, because that's exactly what she did in the past two games I've played with her, and given the fact that I was her scumbuddy in one such game, I'm getting a scum vibe from Tiruin. Tiruin's shock at realizing Imp was scum is understandable. Imp wasn't very scummy D1, and she's also a friend of Tiruin, so I'm not surprised that Tiruin was buddying with Imp slightly.

It doesn't make sense to me.

True, Imp didn't seem very scummy D1. She had a mostly null read to me, but that tended to scummy D2, and by the end I was convinced. Mostly I was convinced by the logical deduction that Imp was blocked (confirmed in deed and flavor) and no dopp kill happened, on top of the scum read I already had on her, which was little more than hunch.

As for the rest, I still see Tiruin as reacting very defensively. Somewhat understandable, human nature when under assault and all that, and she is, but she continues to defend Imp even still. Or, at the very least, continually reiterates her surprise that Imp was scum.

That's really not necessary. She was surprised, we all get that. I was, admittedly, nervous myself when Meph's original day end report came up, I told Tiruin that, because I had to wonder if I was wrong and had just made a huge mistake. And that gave me a moment's hesitation before I began going over the votes and the voteboard. And I literally whooped when Meph made his correction as I was noticing what you had noticed and reported to Meph. By the time I was ready to send that PM, it was already corrected.

So, congratulations, you were the fastest on the draw to perform a vote recount. Doesn't mean that no one else did.

However I've to note that Toaster accurate'd Persus as a human. Now unless Toaster is scum (actually the clear-list lacks Toaster but I put him there because of how I viewed him. He's squeaky clean more than squeaky dirty), then..this path of action isn't that practical.

The problem being, as Toaster himself has noted, that there are roles out there that can fool the Agent. One in particular, can fool both Agent and Detective:

Doppelganger leader
    Visible Role: No Role
    Visible Race: Human
    Rules: More powerful and adept then the others, the leader is immune to detection by Agent or Detective short of death.

Suspicion being that Persus may have this role, the Agent finds only "human", the Detective finds "no role", and no one learns anything. Except that we have Persus' role claim to go against.

So, how is that not practical again?

I know you don't like the process of elimination argument, but it's very practical. Eliminating suspects via logic is better than blind voting.

Oh, and apparently I can't find someone hiding their role behind an anti-tech field. I should've logicked that one out before, silly me. Good thing I didn't have to target TheDarkStar for investigation. I'd've been double screwed.

I'm unsure if this is sarcasm or not, but Superblackcat is a Hivemind..with an advanced holoform thingy. That's how you got no role.

I apologize, I guess in refuting your other points, I must have missed that confession from Superblackcat. Oh, wait, he didn't confess it, you did on his behalf. Whatever the case, fine, I missed that in the walls of text.

Vanilla Town and all Dopps without an actual role (like, say, a Dopp anyfreakin'role but just Dopp) all show a visible "No role". Which means I can't find the Dopps directly. Toaster can, because he can see their Race, and there's no role that has the "Visible race" attribute. So, yeah, the last Dopp hid N2, laid low, most likely because there was no way to manage a kill without being outed.

"Say, it's really odd that the guy so-and-so was covering got night killed by the Dopp! What's up with that, so-and-so?"

Covering who now? Cado was the one who died. You didn't target Cado...The only one who did is ToonyMan. You targeted the luckyblackkittycat.

My point, since I didn't make it clear enough was that if, hypothetically speaking here, you were guarding me by public admission and I died, and you saw nothing, then the only logical conclusion to be drawn is that you were involved in my death. Either you did not do as you claimed you were going to, or you killed me.

My proposition wasn't directed at any particular scenario from last night.

Oh holy fuck, how is that not WIFOM? You clearly want us to question why you would do something so ... bad scum play ... as defending Imp so that we'll be lead to think exactly that, that you can't possibly be scum, because that would just be stupid to still be defending a known scum, so clearly you must be Town, or stupid, or scum playing badly, or....

Nay, I don't say that 'THIS PROVES ME TOWN BECAUSE I DID X, WHY SHOULD I DO X WHEN X IS BAD OBVIOUSLY?!'. I ask for your opinions--judging it as WIFOM seems more like a defensive measure than not as it throws out an implied meaning instead of giving a true-man's word to the story--their opinion.

My opinion is that even mentioning it is WIFOM.

I mean, I'm playing the whole thing straight by doing your summarizing for you. Remember that time you call be a list of accusations without bringing up backing to shut the case in? I'm bringing in my own damnation right there, and I get a wayward sign slapped on my face. Of all things present, that's the thing that marks me scummy more than anything, and you don't poke it right.

I'm ... not even sure what you're trying to say here.

I have to side with Tiruin on this. What Tiruin said isn't WIFOM because it's true. Tiruin is a good scum player who has managed to appear town and win the past two games I've played with her. I doubt she'd be playing this badly (for a scum player) if she was actually scum.

>_>
While this was the idea I was under, I was asking for an opinion..

Fakeedit: Ah, just saw it. Erk.
Wait, I can play that badly as scum! I'm forgetful at times too, y'know. :I

Everyone has good and bad days, and good and bad games. Good scum play one game does not predicate good scum play another, and the same goes for town play.


Hey, Tiruin, a question...

If I live, I'll be blocking either makeinu or Toony

Didn't you claim Guard?

Because from this list:

    Tiruin - Claimed Heroic Guard (I'm actually a Guardian. )

If you really are a heroic guard. I reccommend you protect Makeinu. Dead man walking out.

And I just remembered (woo, memory, nice way to convict me >__>). The base reason why I claimed is because I took it from a scum perspective of view--they would see me claiming as a heroic guard and then wonder why one would even do such a thing--sure, while its a Protect role, it also means its a martyr role, so in essence they'd chance upon something else in their thoughts and plans--enabling me to launch this thing against anyone I deemed worthy. Stuff is hazy, that's my general idea and why I said WIFOM scum at the time.
It didn't work as I'm still alive (Not a Guardian).

Why do you keep changing your mind?


You know, the funny thing is, I'm half-convinced I'm wrong and chasing the wrong lead and Tiruin isn't scum and the last dopp is just laughing his ass off at all this...

And I know there are some other points I was going to comment on, refute, whatever, but commenting across five or six related walls of text and chasing down references from earlier in thread has gotten me all kerfuffled...

[Jim Groovester]

I voted him because he seemed to be acting differently D2 than D1 along with the fact that I had been informed by Makeinu that Jim was the Mind Stealer.

So the fucking rat did fucking rat. Did he give you any reasons for why he revealed this to you?

Toaster seems Town from his inspect clearing me, the top lynch pick last night.

However I've to note that Toaster accurate'd Persus as a human. Now unless Toaster is scum (actually the clear-list lacks Toaster but I put him there because of how I viewed him. He's squeaky clean more than squeaky dirty), then..this path of action isn't that practical.

This doesn't clear him at all. If he were a dopp he could just say that and probably be right.

Why are people saying this clears Toaster?

This is making me wonder: What are your thoughts on who is scum? What is your opinion of Tiruin and Makeinu right now?

There are people I don't consider scum for various reasons. Myself and Caz, obviously, ToonyMan, and yourself. Everybody else is a suspect.

Superblackcat is a liar and needs to be lynched as soon as possible, so it's important to not lose sight of this as we debate over who the last dopp could be.

As for the remaining people, I have no strong inclination to rate any of them higher on a suspect list than anybody else.

[Mephansteras]

makeinu Please no big pictures. Big pictures kill my tiny net and increase load times by 100% >_<
That, and I can't see it.

My apologies.

Meph: permission requested to edit the picture link out?

I did it for you.

[makeinu]

I did it for you.

Thanks. Bandwidth Privilege error.

[Tiruin]

[...]
It doesn't make sense to me.

True, Imp didn't seem very scummy D1. She had a mostly null read to me, but that tended to scummy D2, and by the end I was convinced. Mostly I was convinced by the logical deduction that Imp was blocked (confirmed in deed and flavor) and no dopp kill happened, on top of the scum read I already had on her, which was little more than hunch.

As for the rest, I still see Tiruin as reacting very defensively. Somewhat understandable, human nature when under assault and all that, and she is, but she continues to defend Imp even still. Or, at the very least, continually reiterates her surprise that Imp was scum.

That's also why I singled out that one statement of mine. This pertains to:

    I mean, I'm playing the whole thing straight by doing your summarizing for you. Remember that time you call be a list of accusations without bringing up backing to shut the case in? I'm bringing in my own damnation right there, and I get a wayward sign slapped on my face. Of all things present, that's the thing that marks me scummy more than anything, and you don't poke it right.

I'm ... not even sure what you're trying to say here.

Because I'm doing your darn work for you by naming what I see your accusation of 'defensiveness' or whatever points towards! I show that relevant section then throw it off for discussion. What I get is being discarded and then labeled yet again. Where do I keep on defending Imp? If I did so, then does the context of where I did not matter? Can you quote it out?

What I don't see is continuity on what you accuse me of.

The problem being, as Toaster himself has noted, that there are roles out there that can fool the Agent. One in particular, can fool both Agent and Detective:

Ah, yes, but this takes in the probability that Persus didn't act, instead. Why shouldn't he act? I sincerely doubt that he's the leader given our correspondence yesterday? You want me to quote it all? I'll do it in chronological order. All this deters me thinking he's the leader (and if he was the leader, he should've really killed, because no investigative role can catch him. Toony didn't block him, ergo he either didn't act, or is the darn leader.)
*checks back*
..Ok, that thing about the leader was only in my notes >_< Blargh for me not noticing it. Anyway, that's up here now.

So, how is that not practical again?

I've to admit, its more on what we said during the night and then me reflecting back on his posts that convince me otherwise, despite this strange feeling here.
...Doubt me or not here, I was being pretty..emotional.

Spoiler: Tiruin > Persus letters. (click to show/hide)

If you really are a heroic guard. I reccommend you protect Makeinu. Dead man walking out.

How can I trust you and/or you being non-mafia, buddy?

makeinu also seems scummy. How do you see him dead there?

Oh bloody hell wait what

Just caught up with the thread.

...
wat

...Erh. I'd rather protect Jim.

Okay. I'm going to protect Toony then.

Okay. I'm going to protect Toony then.

Duuuude, click the 'Reply to All' button because you just replied to me only and not Meph there. You silly scallywag!

..Who you.

Silly Persus. :I

Anywhoos, to clarify--I voted you due to your sporadic voting pattern and stuff like that, pretty unsure why you're so jumpy but I can't sense a scum read on intuition so..meh, I trust you for now.

Next, protecting Jim because he's darn well the obvious non-scum via vote pattern on Imp's case and beyond. The essence of her posts relate to who or why the target is in suspect.

So elimination process.

...This explains me answering him here and..why he didn't question on me about it now. Sorry for not saying earlier.

Okay. I'm going to protect Toony then.

Duuuude, click the 'Reply to All' button because you just replied to me only and not Meph there. You silly scallywag!

..Who you.

Shoot, I keep doing that like an idiot.

..Yeah, this did imply that he was talking to someone else. Back then, I really thought it was you, makeinu. Which..I guess it still is.

:I

*checks thread*

OOooooooooohhhhh. You're the guard!

Third, unnamed, Observant Guard claim, Town presumed but not claimed, guarded the Mind Stealer. No kill attempt.

Ahah.
..hah. Right.
I've a list of correspondences here on who may be scum or not (yay notation) so..care to trade notes? May I know who the MS is?

Night PMs to other players are allowed, right Meph?

Meph said yes.

Tiruin-Has a tendency to vote scum when scum. She's voting me right now, so town? But she also has failed to explain why she thinks I'm scum and why she isn't paying attention to me at all.

Woah, hey, wait. I explained why I was voting you before!
...
Ok, it was subtle but it was there D:<
Anyway, context above, I was really doubtful of your moves back there--switching votes left and right, and othe rthan my usual note on you on 'Persus likes to vote people as a presser for info then shift his vote later', you switch..near the day end.

Also that quote there? Neutral tip: I'm amorphous and can shift whenever, to whatever, depending on the situation. To outthink me, you must out-think my surroundings first. Don't hold that as a label to know my playstyle. :3

Last Night I protected Jim. He's the Mind Stealer.

...What's your idea on the whole game btw? We have...a ton of protecting//Tough type roles.

..Oh crap, strange thought..um. Exterminator with Combat Camouflage?

*re-reads thread*
Craaaa-..
That's a lot of vote shifts. What did you do with makeinu there?!
..Dear gods that was one quick succession. Imp shoots you off as town. Woo.
[Stuff on PMs at night @Meph]

The Mind Stealer is Jim. I believe i said this in my "goodbye" post.

I protected him N1 becuase I figured that scum would kill an experienced player first.

My top suspect right now is SBC, because I found reasons for voting me were bad meta and Jim's reasons. Also, Max being scummy D1 was another factor. However Makeinu, you, and Toaster are all on my shortlist of suspects as well.

Toonyman being scum I just can't see given his roleclaim.

Jim and Caz being scum is something I still think possible, but not likely.

Tiruin-Has a tendency to vote scum when scum. She's voting me right now, so town? But she also has failed to explain why she thinks I'm scum and why she isn't paying attention to me at all.

Woah, hey, wait. I explained why I was voting you before!

I was talking more about you more recently. You kept your vote on me without saying "Persus is scum, lynch him" like Toaster and Jim.

...What's your idea on the whole game btw? We have...a ton of protecting//Tough type roles.

Well, so far there's only been one known kill source.

..Oh crap, strange thought..um. Exterminator with Combat Camouflage?

Huh?

*re-reads thread*
Craaaa-..
That's a lot of vote shifts. What did you do with makeinu there?!
..Dear gods that was one quick succession. Imp shoots you off as town. Woo.

Makeinu wanted to save me for some reason. I just wanted someone to die, no matter whether it was me, Jim, or Imp. I'm glad now it was a dopp. Makeinu wanted me and Jim alive. Imp wanted me alive for some reason (sow doubt?), and Jim seemed to want no shenanigans.

Of course now everyone's going to be gunning for me tomorrow. I was right about Imp's playstyle being off though.

So I discovered the utility of the Maximum 20-PM-per-hour system this forum uses.

[Non-Mafia Related]

I was talking more about you more recently. You kept your vote on me without saying "Persus is scum, lynch him" like Toaster and Jim.

My methods regardless of alignment are not as blatant as them. I go by the scientific method of empirical and analytical evidence, sir.
If you want transparency, then just ask >_> I mean, people should read.

Well, so far there's only been one known kill source.

..Bleh. My paranoia.
Still..we've a Mind Stealer.
...Why are you so trusty of makeinu or JIm?

Huh?

Well it is plausible. I don't know how the Mind Stealer works.
Meph: Can an exterminator's Combat Camouflage mimic any kind of kill-flavor?

Makeinu wanted to save me for some reason. I just wanted someone to die, no matter whether it was me, Jim, or Imp. I'm glad now it was a dopp. Makeinu wanted me and Jim alive. Imp wanted me alive for some reason (sow doubt?), and Jim seemed to want no shenanigans.

Of course now everyone's going to be gunning for me tomorrow. I was right about Imp's playstyle being off though.

1 dopp left and I doubt its you..now.

...

..
...I believe the last dopp is SBC. You guard Toony, I'll do either makeinu or Jim.
Nah, I'll make it makeinu instead.

Basic meaning: I trust him with my darn life.
PS: He told you that he was an Observant Guard firsthand--you don't seem to doubt that (other than point the possible role)

....Wait, strange idea just hit me. I'm asking myself -why- did we roleclaim today? Yes, the notion follows that 'there's one dopp', and that 'Town are lotsa people' but..that question makes me wonder the order of claims and when or why.

You know, the funny thing is, I'm half-convinced I'm wrong and chasing the wrong lead and Tiruin isn't scum and the last dopp is just laughing his ass off at all this...

And I know there are some other points I was going to comment on, refute, whatever, but commenting across five or six related walls of text and chasing down references from earlier in thread has gotten me all kerfuffled...

Ah, but there is one more point you miss.

Put in the notion that I'm not the dopp. Look at it that way for the moment, now consider this: The last dopp knows I'm a Heroic Guard--and given that Persus is more clear than not (I trust him and I'll be aghast if he's scum), said Dopp has to contend with a security team of two roving people, who both are talking in secret--who'll both clear and unclear who else is out there; therefore his primary target for lynches should be the guardians and not the actors (those who have power roles--Toony, Toaster, makeinu; wherein one of you is the Dopp...My notes point towards either a Toaster/makeinu suspect).

My point, since I didn't make it clear enough was that if, hypothetically speaking here, you were guarding me by public admission and I died, and you saw nothing, then the only logical conclusion to be drawn is that you were involved in my death. Either you did not do as you claimed you were going to, or you killed me.

My proposition wasn't directed at any particular scenario from last night.

Pretty obvious given that it's what I'm claiming. However I either would be protecting who I said before or won't--that is left to my conversing with Persus tonight.

My opinion is that even mentioning it is WIFOM.

Well WIFOM back to you too buddy. :I

Why do you keep changing your mind?

For fun and profit. Really, I thought anyone could detect the transparency of my sarcasm there.


Jim

Why are people saying this clears Toaster?

I should really get more organized with my notes. It doesn't clear him thoroughly, but it just gives the idea (given that I said 'note') on how the situation is.

[makeinu]

So the fucking rat did fucking rat. Did he give you any reasons for why he revealed this to you?

This really chaps you hide, doesn't it. Would it bother you less to know that I told him that before I approached you, because I trusted my gut with regards to him.

Probably not.

Tiruin:

Thank you. I'm sorry for pushing so hard, but I had to be sure of you. You've been very fun to spar with.

[Tiruin]

Thank you. I'm sorry for pushing so hard, but I had to be sure of you. You've been very fun to spar with.

O_o

Ok you confuse me too much now.
...

[makeinu]

Thank you. I'm sorry for pushing so hard, but I had to be sure of you. You've been very fun to spar with.

O_o

Ok you confuse me too much now.
...

Then my work here has achieved its purpose.

I have nothing on you. No Agent report. No Detective report. No Mind Stealer report. Nothing at all, except a few PMs and some anecdotal night evidence.

No matter how hard I pushed, you were consistent. That counts for a lot. I haven't seen you crack or slip.

Sorry if I pushed too hard.

[Tiruin]

._.

I have no idea if you're literally brushing it all off, or withdrawing tacitly, or being a detective and being classy.

And then that PM..

I can check you, Toaster, or Persus tonight. Any one of you will give me a confirm/contradict on your respective role-claims. A check on Jim or Caz won't really tell me anything, I think. Jim will still come up Mind Stealer, Caz as no role, since that whole dynamic is pretty well confirmed.

If I get no role off of any one of you, I have to take it to mean that means dopp.

Persus I trusted from the start, and his actions at the end of Day Two, the Imp-cident, at it shall be known henceforth, cemented that.

My inquisition on you clears you in my mind, along with your exchanges with Persus.

That leaves Toaster. Strong Town read, but an enigma to me.

Which..does give reason that the suspects not cleared by previous days are Toaster, you and me.

To be fair..you really do confuse me at times and somehow I didn't even get a tick from my intuition on it.

I'll..I'll be posting this in thread...
>_<

I don't even.

PS: You do. Your accusations of me. Where did they go?

[makeinu]

Meh, I should've just posted then instead of a PM.

._.

I have no idea if you're literally brushing it all off, or withdrawing tacitly, or being a detective and being classy.

Withdrawing. Tactfully.

I pushed, and you didn't break. Whatever side you're on, you're staying consistent, so pushing more, as fun as it is to spar, won't get me any new information.

Superblackcat wants to play the mysterious card and not give a reason why he shouldn't be lynched via active defense. Fine, so be it, he flips his actual role, and tonight we'll learn some new things. Hopefully, that won't be when the remaining dopp finally gets in a kill.

And we'll learn new things based on the multitude of claimed powers out there.

That PM you quote is my reasoning. To me, Persus is completely trustworthy Town now, I have zero doubt, because of D2 end.

Toaster is a complete enigma to me, but he's offered up to be prey to Jim's Mind Steal.

You, also, are still an enigma to me, and you've only tangentially offered up to be cleared, even to be lynched, but "not like this". Okay.

ToonyMan gave us Imp on a day when no one but me, apparently, saw anything scummy in deed, word, or action.

Jim and Caz are linked, not inextricably, but I'm convinced on the Town side. Maybe they're both dopps playing a long game, letting us fight publicly until they can strike and be within reach of winning. If so, we have enough of a buffer to stop that in advance.

You and Persus see me as scummy. Jim sees me as a rat. Whatever. You wanted to see scum-hunting, well, there it is. Be awed, be bored, beam me up Scotty, it is as you see it. Sometimes, tunneling is necessary. It doesn't really take only three licks to reach the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop; the world may never know because that wise old owl cheated.

And you, along with Toaster, haven't been checked except by words and claimed deeds. So, tonight, I have a choice to make. I check one or the other to verify your role claims. Either what I get matches the claim, or I call shenanigans. And if I do get a match, huzzah! Either way, we're one step closer to finding the last of the monsters in our midst.

[Tiruin]

Mind Control
    Pure Role-blockers
    Abductors
    Protectors
    Investigators
    Night Kills/Conversions (The War Vet (or equivalent) is sort of an exception, in that he'll kill anyone who targets them on THEIR turn, rather than his)

[Where did Toaster say he's ok with his mind being wiped?] Given this, what is offered would work with Toaster if he's scum though, unless Jim makes it hilarious that he betrays Toaster if Toaster's a dopp..but that'd work against his copied wincon for that time--BUT it prevents Toaster from killing (ie If Toaster is scum and Jim abducts him, there'll be no kill).

Barring Persus being a dopp lead (which I doubt), then we'll be staring at a single investigation from makeinu--he'll have to guess easy if he's scum, or put the blame on someone else (which would only best work when he's got nothing to lose)--along with two guards roaming about and a role blocker. If Toaster's being targeted by Jim, that leaves makeinu with the prospect of targeting me--either he tells the truth or not, that is to be seen, or he chooses to kill.

If Toaster's scum though, that'll leave with 2 dopps left and we'll have little notice about that other than Jim's word for the morrow. There is no way I or anyone else (but Toony) can intervene if Jim is targeting Toaster as scum (ie If I was a guard, then I can't block Jim and let him steal my mind instead).

Meh, I should've just posted then instead of a PM.

..Why did you PM me anyway?

._.

I have no idea if you're literally brushing it all off, or withdrawing tacitly, or being a detective and being classy.

Withdrawing. Tactfully.

Tacitly! :I

I pushed, and you didn't break. Whatever side you're on, you're staying consistent, so pushing more, as fun as it is to spar, won't get me any new information.

But..you didn't back it up. That was obvious from my part (and yeah I did break. See my rant before? Yeah.)

And you, along with Toaster, haven't been checked except by words and claimed deeds. So, tonight, I have a choice to make. I check one or the other to verify your role claims. Either what I get matches the claim, or I call shenanigans. And if I do get a match, huzzah! Either way, we're one step closer to finding the last of the monsters in our midst.

Or you're scum and are faced with either telling the truth or killing someone else and then claiming the truth.

[Caz]

Or you're scum and are faced with either telling the truth or killing someone else and then claiming the truth.

If makeinu is scum, I will clap wholeheartedly then promptly quit mafia forever. Winning against that kind of cunning and luck... no chance for this 'mindless townie'.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:  Right here- a bit before SBC refused to claim and got voted by me.

Toaster, a thought occurred to me late last night. Have you been checked/cleared? I can't recall, but if I'm remembering right, the answer is no. Technically, that makes three in need, with SBC being half-cleared, sort of.

Makeinu:  You're correct that I haven't.  How about if we get to tomorrow with no leads, Jim mindsteals me?

Toaster: Why did you target Persus?

Because I thought he might be scum.  My case on him felt weak, so I used my inspect to clear things up.  It came back town.

Same reason I inspected Caz N1.  You'll note my vote was on those targets at day end both times.

This should also answer Jim since he asked as well.


I'll go over the list again and why I think Tiruin is dopp.  List is "least suspect" to "most suspect."


Toaster:  Me.  I know I'm town, but that doesn't help any of you.
makeinu:  D1 DarkStar targeted him excessively and unnecessarily.  He was also the tiebreaking vote to lynch Imp.  If he's scum, he's playing masterfully.
Jim Groovester/Caz:  Right now they are the same alignment.  If Caz was Dopp, then Jim would have changed to someone else N2, ratted out Caz, and eliminated the Dopp team.  Since he didn't do so, Caz is almost certainly not dopp.
ToonyMan:  Claimed out Imp when there was no real reason to do so.  Would have to have been a bus when bussing would have been a dangerous choice.
Persus13:  I inspected him as Town.  To be scum, would need to be a Dopp Leader.  Possible, but I doubt it.

None of the people above I have any real suspicion of at all.  They're probably 10% likely to be scum combined.

Tiruin:  Since everyone else has a strong reason for me to think they aren't Dopp, is dopp by process of elimination.  Sorry!
Superblackcat:  Is dangerous claimed alien scum.  Needs to be lynched immediately.