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[Sarvaartha]

Hello again! I feel like I have a great fort going this time, but it is lacking a corresponding great military. I had the first ambush show up (thanks to someone forging a legendary platinum war hammer $$$), and performed my first trial with drawbridges. It was great and I sealed up the fort nicely (which is entirely self-sufficient). Of course, I couldn't stay like that forever (well, I could). The goblins stood around at the map's edge and just waited. Eventually, a new migrant wave showed up and I felt pretty bad, so I let them in, and that's when the cracks in my plan became evident.

I had a trap-lined corridor I had them feverishly work on after I pulled the levers to seal it up, and had actually shut the merchants in (yes, I am aware they can go mad). At this time, I had one squad of five dwarves with silver maces (not macedwarves) that had been training for months, and the aforementioned cage traps. The ace in the hole was the military units that came with the caravan I had shut inside. Flip the levers. Caught two in the cages, one of my macedwarves got killed, and several of the caravan guards got wasted as well. They were driven off, but it was obvious it might not have ended well unless they all got caught in traps.

All of this to ask... how is a better way to get established?

Granted, my units didn't have armor yet, but I have read that wooden shields are worth their weight in platinum. I've also read about having several squads of two dwarves (I'm guessing this increases the chances of them sparring), so I'm thinking of splitting it up to encourage that. Also, is it typical to have a squad of all one weapon type? Meaning, all five of my guys have maces (even though only one was really trained in mace use). I thought that is how it was done to reduce cross-training. Any general tips on how to improve The Sorry Lot (not their real name)?

[neblime]

first off, definitely get armor, it makes a huge difference. I'm no expert on shields, but as far as i can tell material isn't as important as skill.  Also remove your prisoner's weapons (but not armor!) and chain them up for military practice.  To do this use the mass designate tool on the cages to claim and dump all of their items (d-b-c and d-b-d respectively) then go into stocks in the status screen, and remove dump from the goblin armor. It can also be helpful to remove your soldiers weapons so they don't kill the prisoner, or use inferior weapons (like training weapons, or say a crossbow for hammerdwarf skill, for maces an adamantine mace should be quite ineffective)

[Urist McVoyager]

Ack, I got it backwards when I was advising someone. So you dump everything but the armor? Got it!

[garbagebuddy]

I think it's best to just pick two guys from the first or second migration wave and get them training ASAP. Use training weapons and wooden shields to start and give them better equipment as you go along. Since you already have decent weapons just make sure your dorfs are training most of the time and expand as you get more dorfs/resources.

Also, is it typical to have a squad of all one weapon type? Meaning, all five of my guys have maces (even though only one was really trained in mace use). I thought that is how it was done to reduce cross-training. Any general tips on how to improve The Sorry Lot (not their real name)?

Yeah you want to keep them separate, and not just because of cross training, but because of enemy resistance. Certain mega beasts will be near impossible to kill with maces for example.

As for some general tips:

Use males or unmarried females for your melee dorfs whenever possible. Having a baby on the battlefield always leads to tragedy FUN
Keep your military training and sleeping next to your forts entrance. You need them to be ready at a moments notice.
Marksdorfs are really powerful so don't ignore them

[Repseki]

Definitely get armor. It can sometimes be dangerous just training without at least some armor, although it doesn't take much to stop training accidents. Having them split up into 2-3 man squads will help speed things up quite a bit, since they mostly just spar.

I usually have my training barracks in an area just inside the main fort entrance so any thieves that try to get in give them a little bit of live training now and then without having to micromanage caged prisoners to much. When I do use prisoners to train, it's usually for my marksdwarves, since they train up a lot faster that way.

Just make sure there isn't a clear line of sight from the training area, or wherever you might place them to defend, to outside the fort. Otherwise the first one to get there might decide to charge the 30+ goblins by himself before the rest of the militia can get there.

[Larix]

Cross-training doesn't actually happen, dwarfs will only participate in weapon demonstrations if they have experience in the skill. A hammerdwarf with absolutely no axe skill (true zero, not even "dabbling") will not attend the axedwarf class but keep on training hammers; an axe-centric teacher with no axedwarfs in the student squad won't choose axes as skill to teach (because no-one would watch). I've tried out a variety of training setups and have yet to see a dwarf take a lesson in a weapon skill they have no experience in. (Training in unarmed combat and defensive skills may happen without prior experience, i'm not sure.)

"Combined arms" squads usually train quicker than squads made up of one weapon group, because the latter will waste time on the atrociously slow weapon demonstrations instead of sparring. Mixed squads can also work quite well against common enemies, where the different attack types combine favourably - hammerstrikes to break bones and cause pain, axes to chop off limbs, spears for organ-destroying stabbing. If you can only spare few dwarfs for the military, picking a decent combination of weapons can pay off, especially as long as you're mainly worrying about kobolds and goblins.

For special purposes, dedicated squads can do better. Spears and axes against huge enemies, as said above, blunt weapons only against undead etc. That's usually a consideration for later years. It might still pay off to train the military up in mixed squads and only organise the actual combat squads by weapon.

Short version: both mixed and single-weapon squads are perfectly valid options. Mixed squads are good generalist units in combat and _can_ be a bit faster in training, but that depends much on random luck and the difference, if it's there at all, is pretty small; and if you want specialist squads for actual combat, training them together is less of a hassle.

[Kirkegaard]

The quality of my military did improve x1000 times, when I learned about the so-called "danger room".

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Danger_room

It is a very fast way to gain legendary soldiers, it is almost to powerful.

[Sarvaartha]

first off, definitely get armor, it makes a huge difference. ...

Thanks for the advice! That is the general aim I had when I established the cage corridor.

I think it's best to just pick two guys from the first or second migration wave and get them training ASAP. ...

I try to pick first from the second migration wave because I consider most everyone from the original wave necessary for their skills. Then again, surviving to the second wave IS kinda important... I'll try smaller squads earlier on. Typically, I pick only males, and they have to be "useless" by my standards (i.e., fisherdwarves, tanners, etc.); this, however, leads to a high instance of my squads having almost no-one trained   

Definitely get armor. ...

Yeah, my barracks is close to the "Grand Staircase", so that (hopefully) no one should make it down two z-levels below to the main sleeping quarters. Thanks for the input!

Cross-training doesn't actually happen, dwarfs will only participate in weapon demonstrations if they have experience in the skill. ...

This is what I find most interesting. So, are you suggesting that if I pluck three dorfs (one competent axe-wielder, two 0 trained), then the two are incapable of learning the axe? Or is that just in relation to weapon demonstrations? If the former, then I'll have to change the way I select dorfs for the draft.

The quality of my military did improve x1000 times, when I learned about the so-called "danger room".

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Danger_room

It is a very fast way to gain legendary soldiers, it is almost to powerful.

I've read this, and am highly interested... but it seems almost too much of an exploit to me. It would be nice to actually be able to STAND UP to an invading force, but I'm trying my best to enjoy the game without... well, gaming the system. I'd need armor first, otherwise I'd have dwarf-kebabs 

Finally, the reason I went with silver maces is because that was the "best" use I could figure out for the metals I have uncovered thus-far. I'm only about 10 z-levels down, but all that has turned up is silver, platinum, cassiterite, galena, and a veritable mountain of dolomite. Not exactly the kind of stuff I'd make weapons from. There IS tetrahedrite several more z-levels down, which I could use to make bronze with the cassiterite, but I haven't struck it yet. I know this because of a massive waterfall on the map has revealed the wall.

[Larix]

Cross-training doesn't actually happen, dwarfs will only participate in weapon demonstrations if they have experience in the skill. ...

This is what I find most interesting. So, are you suggesting that if I pluck three dorfs (one competent axe-wielder, two 0 trained), then the two are incapable of learning the axe? Or is that just in relation to weapon demonstrations?

Just demonstrations, fortunately. If you order them to train, they will - slowly - gain a bit of weapon experience through individual combat drills, and once that experience is present, axe demonstrations become possible.

If, for another example, there's a dwarf with axe skill and another with mace skill in one of the early migration waves, you can throw both of them into the same squad, give them the weapons they're skilled in and they'll train up without problem. Chances are they'll even level up faster than a pair of axedwarfs, because they can't give weapon demonstrations to each other and will spar instead, resulting in much more consistent and faster experience gain.

[Garath]

if you have a magma smelter, coal or lignite or just a lot of trees, buy up every piece of iron from every caravan you can get your hands on and melt it down. After a few years you should be able to make a massive over-production of stuff to trade away, why not turn it into iron? it's much more useful than gold. Also remember that you can order lots of iron stuff from the caravan, but more importantly, you can order iron containing ores and smelt them yourself. At 5 stones for 3 different ores and 4 bars per stone melted, you're sitting on 60 bars per year without anvils and other meltable items counted yet. More if you also take the human caravan for what it's worth, better even if you've reintroduced the human trade guild representative.

[WoobMonkey]

Silver, with its weight and high density, is best used for warhammers.  In fact, it's pretty much the best material for blunt damage - save your iron, steel, bronze, etc for slashing/piercing weapons.

[KingBacon]

Danger rooms increase skill but not attributes. So instead of getting unbreakable dorfs who have increases in toughness, strength, agility, and willpower, you get skilled but weak soldiers. This will increase causalities.

An easy army to set up uses mass conscription of civilians and crossbows. Use leather for body armor, boots and quivers only. Bone for greaves, helms and gauntlets. Wood for bolts, shields and crossbows.

Set up uniforms to take only white helms, greaves, and gauntlets and leather armor. Go to ammunition, increase the amount of bolts on the squad. Keep the sqauds inactive or set only two to train. The rest will be working (also ensure none of your conscripts have mining, woodcutting or hunting enabled, otherwise they will just go stark naked.)

Now if you have an open area, say the end of a long hallway, and enemies are approaching you can station your squads at the end and enjoy the hail of bolts. Most will miss, but the success of this strategy is numbers. And for an added bonus, you don't have to clothe the dorfs anymore since they now have unrottable unis.

[vanatteveldt]

There really is no need for danger rooms. If you get dwarfs training effectively for about half a year - a year, they should be legendary in fighting + weapon and decent in the defensive skills.

The main thing is to get dwarfs training early, preferably before the first caravan. They don't need (a lot of) weapons and armor yet, just give them a barracks, some training weapons, and off they go. Once the first migrant wave in the second year comes in, set a lot of them to military duty. I generally recruit any dwarf with a military skill into the military. Disable all their jobs, get them into the barracks, and watch them spar.

Don't forget to activate the squads: set military alert to "active/training" and activate all sqauds in that alert (via (m)ilitary -> (a)lerts)

While they are training, set up your metal industry and get them some armor. I like taking some ore from the mountainhome to make sure I can get basic militia up by second spring. Whatever you do, don't postpone setting up the military until after you get your forges running, they need time to train and they don't need a lot of fancy gear to get started sparring.


[A surefire way to get a good military quick is to follow the embark guideline I posted in an earlier thread: 4 military dwarves, 1 smith, 1 doctor/broker/manager, and 1 grower. Bring 4 picks, 10 coal, 10 cassetirite, and 10 copper/malachite. Set the military to be your early miners. They don't have skill but will quickly learn in the soil layer, and 4 miners go pretty quick. Strive to get food+booze production and decent quarters, set the smith to make equipment, and you can start training in early summer with the four dwarves. By winter they should be legendary. For the military dwarves, the best skills to give them are teacher and armor/shield/dodge. They will learn the rest quick enough. Teacher increases the rate of skill gain through training quite a bit (contrary to what some people claim). Initially the fort will be sluggish as you only have 3 mostly inexperienced dwarves to run it, but by the time the migrants come in you will be fine. ]

[neblime]

Danger rooms increase skill but not attributes.

skill increase attributes.  as far as I know the ONLY way to improve attributes is to level up skills.

[Garath]

to clarify, I guess, skill increase and attribute increase is related, but not the same. Attribute increase is related a lot to how long a certain skill is used. So a soldier sparring for a year or more may have similar skill levels compared to a soldier who spent a week in a danger room, but his attributes will be way higher