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[Lectorog]

That was indeed all very useful. The next time we're on the subject I'll ask if she wants any "resources that seem better than average" - rather than more forcing it upon her.

She provided more on the reasons she cuts herself: 1) to calm down during bad anxiety or panic attacks 2) because she deserves it 3) sometimes because she just likes the way it looks.

I reminded her to consider chatting with her doc or looking into a support group. I noted that I'd be comfortable not talking with her about it much if she were talking to someone else. I apologized for being a bit too prying/forceful a couple of times. I'm going to try to adopt a more passive support approach.

I'm accepting of the self harm now. I won't accept her not having any help at all - won't accept yet, at least. Maybe I need to accept that too?

I've been wanting to cut myself too, from compound of various things and talking/thinking about it with her. But I generally trust myself to control these feelings; it's not the first time I've wanted to, but I never have.

[Imp]

I've been wanting to cut myself too, from compound of various things and talking/thinking about it with her. But I generally trust myself to control these feelings; it's not the first time I've wanted to, but I never have.

And that's to some extent why I am interested in helping -you- even though you're asking for help for her.

Behavior and mental/emotional states are not contagious, but for those who already 'lean that way', exposure and interaction with someone who is actively involved with that behavior can be an issue.  Recovering alcoholics who spend time in bars and around social groups where drinking is an encouraged norm face more challenges than those who mostly avoid 'drinking triggers'.

For certain highly empathic people, being around 'someone' can make that empathic individual 'feel more like that other person' than they feel when they are alone or around others.  I happen to be that sort of person myself - the fastest way to bring out my aggressive side is for me to interact closely with an aggressive person, fastest way for me to feel deeply calm is to closely focus on and interact with a deeply calm person.  I believe people like that are rare though, and most well-designed scientific studies support that mental illness is not contagious - that includes self-harm related behaviors.

However, you do need to be aware of your possible leanings that way (the fact that you have never done so suggests that you do not have a problem, and will not - people are allowed to think, and thinking is not by itself insane given that you do not act on 'insane thoughts or urges'.  I cite authors who write realistically about psychopaths, suicidal folks and similar from the point of view of that fictional character's twisted mind - these authors are not, almost ever, themselves dangerous individuals.  But they -must- have these thoughts, be able to have these thoughts, or how could they write as they do?

For -you- specifically, I strongly urge you to add extra 'good you stuff' into your life at this time.  I don't know what fits into that category for you personally, for some people that means more nature hikes, for others it means more time reading books they love, for others it means writing poetry, for some folks it means feeding stray and wild animals.

It doesn't matter what you actually do - but that it's something that makes you feel comfortable, comfortable with yourself, right with the world, secure, and 'good with yourself'.  I hope you've had 'peak experiences' already in your life, when you were in a 'flow state' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) - that sort of experience is what I am prescribing for you.  They're not bad for her either - but you're 'my patient' not her - because you've actually asked for help and I actually noticed it - she hasn't.

Caregivers have extra stress and face extra health risks, including emotional and mental health risks, so caregivers deserve and need extra care.  One of the ways to get that care is to spend time 'doing what makes you really glad to be you' - I cannot recommend enough that you do this yourself, and spend a goodly amount of time on this for a bit and then whenever you feel doubt about those 'ifs' that dance around you sometimes.

More information on the troubles and risks of caregivers (most of these are focused on caregivers of the elderly, because that's a very common kind of caregiver, but the problems caregivers face are similar even when the people they care for are not similar):

http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/caregiver-stress.html
http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/caregiver-advice-cope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caregiver_syndrome

Note that Caregiving is not purely a harmful for you to do - the wiki article in particular addresses some of the good-for-the-caregiver sides to being a caregiver.

Information to support that self-harm is not contagious, and you are probably just fine in -that- regard (but should stay aware of yourself, of course):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2533827/ - a short scientific paper on the topic, written in pretty simple English.

http://www.selfinjury.bctr.cornell.edu/about-self-injury.html#tab9  A contradictory viewpoint, a research institution that is considering primarily anecdotal evidence (anecdotal anything is considered weak in scientific terms) and anecdotal observation that self harm 'appears' to be contagious, though they consider that it may not 'spread' but exposure to overt self harmers may make it less of a secretive act - this would be something like a person who smoked secretly giving up the secrecy when around a bunch of other smokers visibly smoking - it looks like they were a non-smoker and now they're smoking - but that's not actually the case.

Good luck.

[Lectorog]

Wow, I hope I can seem as helpful as you are someday.

I'm hesitant to think of myself as a caregiver, but I'll take all helpful bits into consideration.

As for "good you stuff", "flow states", etc. - one of my biggest problems is not knowing of any things I really enjoy and get absorbed in. It's something I'm working on. So I'll just try out suggestions from various places and try my best to be happier and focused on things outside myself.

To be clear, I intentionally cut myself once, if that changes anything. I suppose it does make it easier to do it for the not-first time.

Spoiler: (too many) details, if they matter (click to show/hide)

This spring; I'd been depressed for a couple weeks and thinking a lot about cutting myself. I think blood is neat. I was doing poorly in my english class. So I decided it would be fun to soak one of my returned research papers in blood. I was worried about bleeding too much, not being able to stop it easily, so I cut myself near the elbow on the meaty lower part of my forearm. It was a lot of crisscrossing catscratches that hardly bled (obviously). I didn't like the particular sting of the pain so I lost most of the interest I had. There's a small, not too visible scar from the deepest one - where I cut 3 or 5 or so times.

I understand the reasoning behind the "spread" of unhealthy behaviors.

[RedKing]

Best of luck to you and to her. My GF's daughter has been cutting the last few months, and it breaks my heart. She has such a low opinion of herself (in part because she's 14 and being 14 is its own condition AFAIC) when in reality her mother and I are constantly amazed at how awesome and creative and artistic and multi-talented she is. She's seeing a therapist periodically but I worry for her.

And yeah, I toyed around it with when I was about that age too. I settled on shots of whiskey instead as my palliative. >_>

[Lectorog]

Okay, I've come to terms with her cutting herself. I still want her to feel better, of course, but who doesn't? And I'll talk to her sometime about a psychologist/psychiatrist or support group. No issues there anymore, I think.

Now I have a new problem. Well, two problems to share here.

1) One of my friends has had a really sad life, at least for the last couple of years. Every time I hear something new (diagnosed with diabetes, insulin causing mood swings, used to cut herself) I feel really bad; and I feel bad every time I think about it too.

2) Hearing about my friends doing sex or having drugs makes me feel bad. I don't know why. When there's a general discussion of drugs or sex, it may be okay or may not be. When it's about their experiences - past or nearer - it's not okay. This includes alcohol.

Now, what I'm thinking is 1 might be a simple matter of empathy; and I'll move on from these experiences as she does.
2 might be tied into the fact that I haven't experienced either of those to any degree yet; something about nervousness maybe - I'm just guessing here. So maybe I should try them despite my lack of much interest, just to get that feeling away.

And are all these things racking up something I'm likely to have much success dealing with? I've considered revisiting "my" psychologist.

[Imp]

If you would like to return to your psychologist, do so.  That alone is reason enough to do so.

Where your attention goes, the rest of you follows.

When you focus on sad and bad, sad and bad is what is.

When you focus on problems that can be solved, and focus on that solving, that can allow a sense of accomplishment and increased motivation - the more you focus on what you can do, the more you can do.

There's such a thing as learned helplessness (I'm not saying that you have learned this, but watch out for it.

But I urge you to focus, both yourself individually and to consider focusing with these people you want to help, on solvable problems, on positive experiences, on achievable goals (Big or small - and do NOT underestimate the value of appreciating small things.  Everything that is within your control, and controlled in a positive way, is something that is good and worthy of appreciation - and can be a source of strength and endurance for you).

Set achievable goals, be that to have a new experience, to fix one fixable thing (be specific, clear cut goals, definable success, and accept the success), to have a potentially enjoyable experience with someone (measure your success properly - you cannot realistically control anyone in the world except for yourself.  Everyone has the right to choose how they respond to you - and you -cannot- fail because someone chooses to respond to a pleasant opportunity in an imperfect fashion.  You 'win', you 'succeed' by participating in a way that offers enjoyment - not only if the other person who you do not control does in fact respond well.  You 'win' by controlling yourself and you yourself acting correctly - no matter how the others behave), learn a skill, do some exercising - literally anything you decide that is more good than bad for your life and the lives of others.

It almost doesn't matter what you pick, and it almost doesn't matter if the rest of the world cooperates or not.  You all by yourself have all that you can and should control in your life.  And you can offer to others to explore and experience what's good and right with the world and with being alive, and in doing so, you 'win'.  Even if others refuse.

But if you primarily pay attention to what's wrong and bad with the world, you run a potential risk of putting your primary focus there.  And if you lock down into focus upon the bad, and base your sense of self and self worth upon your ability to control things which are not yours to control (I must help/make someone be happier or be better, or I am failing!  or any similar very dangerous beliefs... because you cannot control anyone but yourself - you have the right to offer (and you do right in offering!) but you have no right to force, thus you MAY NOT be punished if any of your attempts and offers fail.  You are allowed to judge yourself only on how you behave, not on how others behave.  You do NOT have the power to fix anyone.  But that is NO reason for feeling anything negative - it is a simple truth.  Accept, and put your attention where goodness can grow and uplift you, and thus potentially others too.

Consider the philosophy in my signature:

For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

You always have power.  You just need to recognize where your power is and is not.

Final reminder - yes, if you feel like visiting/revisiting 'your' psychologist (or a different one), I personally consider that desire alone a reason to do so.

[Lectorog]

That's all very relevant to my life, which is surprising because I don't see how it ties to my previous post.

See, I have this obsession with min/maxing life combined with a "go big or go home" mentality.
I want to do big things. I often fail to do these big things. I lose motivation partway through. So I give up entirely, to waste my time 100% and dwell on failure. Dwell on failure as much as possible to learn the most possible from it.
I do focus on the negatives in life. I focus on the negative because it is related to problems to be solved, while the positive is fine as it is.
This mindset is wholly unrealistic but I don't know how to change it.

I guess I could try forcing myself to set small goals, and gradually get used to them and work up as well.

I really hate my psychologist but I'm comfortable talking to him, and getting a new one is always a pain. So idk what to do there.
I've been diagnosed as bipolar, meaning that it's a condition I have or patterns close enough to it. So some days I'm okay with everything, others I'm okay with nothing; it's hard to gauge the middle ground, to figure out what things really are and aren't okay in my life.

Also my gf from the OP broke up with me. It was just because she's way too gay to have a bf. We're still best friends, so no real change.

See, I understand what all of the words in your post mean, but I can't imagine how they would manifest IRL.

[Imp]

You get things done each day.  Probably a minimum of scores of things, if not hundreds.  You're just writing off almost all of them as 'insignificant'.  Whoops.  That'd be a good thing to change.

Almost everything you do is made up of a series of steps.

"A journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step"

There is a philosophy called mindfulness.  Calling it Nowness or In The Moment would also be equally appropriate.  Be Here Now.

Your life is filled with small successes.  Even the process of getting up in the morning, getting ready to face your day, from getting out of bed, refreshing yourself in the bathroom, having breakfast, getting dressed, hair combed or brushed, teeth tended, glasses cleaned, making sure you have the things you need for the day, making sure the door's locked behind you as you leave - I'm skipping dozens of things, maybe many more - maybe I included a few you don't actually do (maybe you don't have glasses to clean, for instance).  No matter the exact details, which vary for us all - but each part that you do is an important part of the whole, and the sum of that whole is your life and you.

Be you.  Be there, paying attention and enjoying as you brush your hair, as you brush your teeth, as you clean your dishes.  As you take each step, feel the pressure in your feet, feel your weight shift, feel all your joints move and your body shifting as you move.  Be you.  Be you fully, be present.  Pay attention.  When you talk to people, really be there when you do; really listen to them, really look at them, pay attention.  When you do decide to daydream, really be there for that too, really give yourself to those thoughts and imaginings, and really stop when you stop.  Really return from that mindset, and really be back in the real reality of being yourself and being and doing what you are and what you do.

As to the shrink; you said you were considering going back.  Either go or don't go; as Yoda said there is do and don't do, but there is no try.

When you find yourself leaving the now, especially without your intended permission to do so, simply come back to now.  Now is always here, always Now, and you are always already here in Now.  Returning is as simple as noticing and deciding to.

However you don't get to bully yourself just because you lost sight of Now without deciding to first.  Bullying is dumb and doesn't work towards any positive end.  Punishment's slow and clumsy, fraught with risk of failure, which simple correction, repeated as needed, is free from.  Just keep coming back to 'now', and keep paying attention to 'now' as frequently as you notice you need.

Right now you are reading these words.  And right now, you're doing it excellently.  Notice this.  You read flawlessly.  You continue to read flawlessly.  Now continues to be now.  You might shift in your chair, you might reach for the mouse and click somewhere else.  All this you do exactly right.  In the moment of now, almost everything you do is exactly right, and now is constantly changing, which leads you easily and simply to the next thing to do now.

There are points where you should look further ahead, just as there are times when you should daydream.  When Now calls for such things, when the urge to do so is part of you, then do so for a time, then return to the moments of now, of being yourself, and of the countless, endless stream of everythings which you are a part of and you are doing, even before you realized it.

Here and Now is a very, very good place to be.

[Lectorog]

See, the problem with treating every step as a success:
If you can't do these things right, there's a problem with you. It's unusual to not take them for granted.
And focusing on such small things seems like it would make it hard to focus on bigger things.

[Imp]

See, the problem with treating every step as a success:
If you can't do these things right, there's a problem with you. It's unusual to not take them for granted.
And focusing on such small things seems like it would make it hard to focus on bigger things.

I bolded a few parts.  Consider what I bolded and didn't.

There's a few guesses there.  There's a few 'statements of fact'.

The intermix of the two makes me believe you wish to discuss and dismiss.

That's fine.  But if so, my 'help' stops here.  There are people who ask for help because they want to ask for help and 'be helped' - but who have no intention of actually getting helped.  People who want to live at 'the point of peril' for whatever reason, want that drama and that feel of 'people reaching out to help them' - but that's the only thing they want, they don't want their problems actually to change.

Another choice would be to actually try it for a time period.

Then you have knowledge and experience with which to genuinely discuss your results.  You know about the real challenges you faced in trying it, you know what seemed to be helpful, what seemed to not work at all, or what even seemed to be problems in this which made things seem worse for you; and you can ask for real and specific help, instead of what you have chosen to say and 'do' (not do) instead.

However, it's your life and your choices, throughout.  The choice you make is a perfectly valid choice, it's -your- choice and -your- life.  Good luck!

[Lectorog]

The intermix of the two makes me believe you wish to discuss and dismiss.

Good catch.
I want to change. But I think I want to change so my life will be easier. And it's not easy to change.
I tell myself that every time I've put effort into anything, it's never worked out. Motivation for not trying hard - it won't help.
I don't like the part of me that wishes to discuss and dismiss, but it's the part with more power.

Thanks for all the input. I'll meditate on all this (not quite literally). And I'll legitimately try to change. At the very least, some of the things you've said have been incorporated into my ways of thinking.

[Tiruin]

If you're aiming to try, then repeat to yourself that you'll 'Do'. Somehow, that word has more...power, than try.

And it's not easy to change.

I will be metaphorically vague and say that nothing is easy to change if you keep on thinking that it ain't. What I'm actually saying is to think positively instead of the 'not' side of it, because in most cases, that compels you to aim for different routes on 'how do I approach this' instead of staying put when you're fumbling.

[Lectorog]

Back to the friend.
She's not sure she's going to make it through the school year - of course, she didn't just say that to me out of concern, she responded to a question.
She has declining motivation to work and live.

I talked to her about seeing a therapist of some sort. She doesn't want medication, which I explained was fine.
The biggest problem is, she feels she deserves all the problems she faces and "it's probably better for them to happen". She doesn't think any part of her life should be any better, so she doesn't want to seek out anything that would make her feel better.

She says she feels she deserves it because of "a lot of angst and a want of self-destruction", which she recognizes as circular.

It's my responsibility to do something to help. I don't expect to make her feel any better myself, or even convince her to see a therapist myself. But, what should I do?

[Caz]

Did you find out why she feels this way about herself, btw?

[LordBucket]

It's my responsibility to do something to help.

No it isn't. Trying to help people who don't want help is a sure path to misery. Offer, if you wish. But I recommend detaching yourself from the outcome. Her life is her own.

Live yours.