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Author Topic: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR  (Read 54835 times)

Darkwind3

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #675 on: July 24, 2014, 09:01:47 am »

I could probably give some more detailed analysis of my game than the vague stuff above, and I've got all my turns archived, so I could post a link to a selection of those, but I have a question, Darkwind - are your replays accurate? Pretty much all my old turns aren't playing out like they did originally, so I'm inclined to blame the new version not duplicating old version battles.
No, they're not. My first battle against Man, for example, I actually win this time, even killing poor He-Man because his longbows are no longer magic-weapon death machines that ignore Arrow Fend. I also don't manage to kill Orcus in the siege of Ermor. That said, they otherwise seem to replay in pretty much the same way, and those two are probably useful to watch regardless.

e: by the way, I count 74 Amulets of the Dead.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 09:06:14 am by Darkwind3 »
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sum1won

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #676 on: July 24, 2014, 09:13:16 am »


I also should have considered joining the sceleria gank, (I figured communioned banish + magic duel would have won me that easily enough) but all of my armies were literally 6 moves away and occupied, and killing sceleria while they were fighting ermor to get rid of BoT might have upset some people.
I'm not sure it would have been easy. You can see the sort of critical mass necessary to effectively deal with Sceleria's chaff - I think you could have dealt with my chaff (via giant communion), or my mages (via magic duel), but not both. Banish would have been worth little, anyways - as soon as I could (which was soon since it was an early target) I was casting Antimagic in literally every battle I could. I think Solar Rays was more effective overall for BL, and would have been for you too. I'm not sure what sort of chaff you were using at that point, either, but I'll bet it would be more vulnerable to a Longdead Horseman charge than a line of N9B9 Gandharvas. That said, an attack by R'lyeh was my nightmare for most of the game.

I ought to post some snippets from "Ignoring the octopus in the room". I think every player was in on it but R'lyeh and Ermor, and even lijacote was by the end.

Please do.  It might also be possible to add the Rylehs to the conversation, but excerpts might be easier.  That also explains why I made so little headway with diplomacy and trading - I imagine a group like that would self-reinforce loyalty past self-interest by effectively making a forum to hold defectors accountable.  And Agartha's personal efforts explain the other half.

My idea with banishment was that my H2 starspawn could be assigned to that or WitherBones (Thau was, unsurprisingly, my first research goal).  Banishment scales really quickly, and by equipping the right starspawn with voideyes, they'd be casting it at ~ +5 pen, and since it doesnt cause any real fatigue, I would be able to put a lot of masters on even 8-16 slaves, leaving plenty left for magic duel.  (a 16 slave communion results in an H6 banishment, with an AoE of 14 and 19 damage a hit, and Agartha can attest to how casually I was throwing around communions of that size early on).  A later version of this plan entailed solar brilliance+lucky lobos+magic duel, but Agartha attacked around the time I settled on that.
Dealing with the charge was a problem.  I think I planned to start in back, and maybe have a few scripts of battle summons to eat the lances.
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Darkwind3

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #677 on: July 24, 2014, 10:07:41 am »

My idea with banishment was that my H2 starspawn could be assigned to that or WitherBones (Thau was, unsurprisingly, my first research goal).  Banishment scales really quickly, and by equipping the right starspawn with voideyes, they'd be casting it at ~ +5 pen, and since it doesnt cause any real fatigue, I would be able to put a lot of masters on even 8-16 slaves, leaving plenty left for magic duel.  (a 16 slave communion results in an H6 banishment, with an AoE of 14 and 19 damage a hit, and Agartha can attest to how casually I was throwing around communions of that size early on).  A later version of this plan entailed solar brilliance+lucky lobos+magic duel, but Agartha attacked around the time I settled on that.
Dealing with the charge was a problem.  I think I planned to start in back, and maybe have a few scripts of battle summons to eat the lances.
Fair enough, pen-boosters would do it for most of my chaff and Wither Bones would take care of the rest. That would certainly force me to use my human troops/summons, which are rather less effective than vestals and longdead horsemen (and more vulnerable to Master Enslave).

The message that started it all:
Esteemed fellow bros,

The Fraternal Order of Ulmish Golemcrafters of Argatha (YΓA) has spent the last year watching the signs writ large in the tables and charts derived from reading the stars with growing trepidation. Our Lord and Brother Keystone's recent foray into omniscience has only reinforced concern. Something is rotten on the disk of Valanis, and frankly it smells kinda fishy. Our squidbros infesting the central seas have been growing stronger by the month, and soon may be too powerful to resist. We know that many of you have more pressing concerns (and indeed, some of you are those more pressing concerns), but I hope it is clear that something must be done. While my Argathan brothers have advised us to be patient, spend a couple more months hitting the books, maybe shore up the fortifications on our mancaves, and have another drink, YΓA does not feel this is wise. The tentacled menace is currently expanding faster than its dominion, but that's changing fast. When it catches up their fundage will explode, so something must be done sooner rather than later. It is with a heavy heart that I admit of all the assembled bros, the Argathan Swim Team is certain to be responsible for the bulk of the preparatory activities for a hypothetical calamari barbeque, but it can't be denied we're the most qualified.

So, while a handful more months of study might make things a day at the beach, YΓA has concluded there must be action sooner than that. We seek what support we can find from our surface bros; while we'd love to receive bushels of topaz and sapphires to aid us in this quite-unpleasant chore, as well as concurrent attacks on cephalopod beach parties and cutting off logistical slime trails, we'll settle for forestalling the inevitable squidbro mindgames whispering of rich gold veins and magma rivers waiting to be seized from the treacherous-but-distracted Argathans.

Brother Arnulf
Chairman-in-Chief, Ad Hoc Committee for the Promotion of the Consumption of Seafood (The Other Other White Meat)

Sent to: E. Albright, Karlito, Il Palazzo, Margrave, Delta Foxtrot, Vortex Rikers
R'lyeh has become scary big with opportunistic wars, and I agree that they're a threat in need of downsizing. I'm a bit busy though, as I'm sure you all can tell. Suffice to say only one of Karlito or I will be able to contribute, and my supplies of meaningless (but poor amphibian) chaff may be running a little low right now and in the future.

I can forge items to bring my mages or thugs underwater and fight the good fight eventually, but I don't really have the gem income to pull it off, so any water gems would be appreciated. I can't forge any mass-water breathing items, either, which would be useful for bringing down a few human troops or vestals, or a whole bunch to soak mind blasts. Trading for items like dwarven hammers (to make my strapped W income go farther) or the aforementioned mass-water breathing would be much appreciated.

-i died but all i got was this robe
in the name of #unfunny meme, Lord of Fruit Trees

yeah, that's right, your apples report to me

 Sent to: Darkwind3
Suffice to say only one of Karlito or I will be able to contribute,

Well it's pretty clear which one it's going to be. Next time I'll choose less flaky allies.


 Sent to: E. Albright, Karlito, Il Palazzo, Margrave, Darkwind3, Delta Foxtrot
Greetings, our fellow diskworld neighbours.

As most enlightened ones would say, sometimes the best choice is no choice at all. Unfortunately this is not the time, and silence must be broken.
In efforts of transparency, our mighty Magocracy has been under threat from the water-borne scallops, who have entrenched themselves on the coast of our lands with many rubbery appendages, predictably for an eventual invasion.
Unsurprisingly, this has come to pass, this month the squids are on the move. More to the point, unexpectedly our Vanaruski neighbours have struck in the same time frame, which begs the question if the slavs are in bed with the tentacles.

This is not a cry for help, but a warning, if the mighty Abysian Empire is to fall, good luck housing our refugees, and god help your virgins.

 Sent to: Il Palazzo, lijacote, Margrave, Darkwind3, Vortex Rikers
Assortedbros,

Purely academic question here, but what's the best way to deal with a Vastness? Aside from hiding deep in one's castles under a pile of blankets and blubbering like an infant markata?

Brother Whip Wine
Acting-Chairman-in-Chief, Ad-Hoc Committee on Masonry and Textiles
(there were no direct replies to that one)
Sent to: lijacote, Margrave, Darkwind3, Vortex Rikers
Squidfoodbros,

We appear to have reached the start of the late game, and there's only one nation on the disk whose research is ready for it. R'lyeh is fielding a pair of mages with chaff support who can each cast Master Enslave on round 1 w/o communion support. This is not good, and it's only going to get worse. If any of you were thinking of waging war on the squid but hesitating, now is not the time for hesitation.

(I know there's still the monkey war in the north; I don't know if the squid are casually collaborating, actively allied, or dismissively at war with the monkeys. I suspect one of the former, but they did take a(n admittedly undefended border) province of theirs this turn.)

Brother Sewer Brew
Nondescript-Bureaucrat-in-Chief, Standing Committee on Commerce and Trade

Looking back on it, the rest wasn't that individually interesting. Mictlan got the idea for magic-dueling Nahualli from me and Agartha, if you were wondering. (Apologies if anyone felt their privacy was invaded, but I took the liberty of assuming you were all fine with me releasing those messages.)
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #678 on: July 24, 2014, 11:55:04 am »

Sent to: Il Palazzo, lijacote, Margrave, Darkwind3, Vortex Rikers
Assortedbros,

Purely academic question here, but what's the best way to deal with a Vastness? Aside from hiding deep in one's castles under a pile of blankets and blubbering like an infant markata?

Brother Whip Wine
Acting-Chairman-in-Chief, Ad-Hoc Committee on Masonry and Textiles
(there were no direct replies to that one)

I got a number of non-public direct replies to this one, and between that garnered advice and the tests I proceeded to run, I concluded that I was still terrified of Dom2 Vastnesses, but that the main problem I was looking at with Dom4 Vastnesses was going to be catching the damned things. This turned out to be an entirely accurate assessment.
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sum1won

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #679 on: July 24, 2014, 01:40:36 pm »

Sent to: Il Palazzo, lijacote, Margrave, Darkwind3, Vortex Rikers
Assortedbros,

Purely academic question here, but what's the best way to deal with a Vastness? Aside from hiding deep in one's castles under a pile of blankets and blubbering like an infant markata?

Brother Whip Wine
Acting-Chairman-in-Chief, Ad-Hoc Committee on Masonry and Textiles
(there were no direct replies to that one)

I got a number of non-public direct replies to this one, and between that garnered advice and the tests I proceeded to run, I concluded that I was still terrified of Dom2 Vastnesses, but that the main problem I was looking at with Dom4 Vastnesses was going to be catching the damned things. This turned out to be an entirely accurate assessment.

Yeah, this is another example of how Ryleh was nerfed in dom4 in ways I did not expect - the lack of misc slots on the vastness, combined with its very unhelpful ability to cast spells while in melee, made the much less frightening than they had been previously.  Casting spells in melee simply meant they fatigued out quickly.
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #680 on: July 25, 2014, 11:57:45 am »

Frumple, do you still have that Vengeful Water death toll you'd mentioned who knows how many posts ago?
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Frumple

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.01: wrapping up/AAR
« Reply #681 on: July 25, 2014, 01:42:23 pm »

Hrrgg... sorta'. Part way through something or other happened that ended up with me losing a few turns worth of accounting, after which I just let it lapse. Upside to that, there wasn't actually too much killed in the later few turns. Scouts, mostly, with the occasional thaum or mound king of whathaveyou. Definitely broke 100 killed and probably at least 6.5k, but eh. Also, entirely too lazy to go back and reconstruct :P

Still, I do still have the first eight turns and part of the ninth marked down. Can throw those up, I suppose...

Of note: Everything's in a gold cost/number killed/total gold cost format. Gem costs are not tracked, ha, and no distinction was made as to whether what was killed was a commander or not -- everything was included, bodyguards as well. You can get the actual spreadsheet here, in .ods format.

Spoiler: Total (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Turn Breakdown (click to show/hide)
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