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Braaaaaiiiinsss.... Braaaaaaiiiiiiiinnnsss....

By the holy swelling of Armok's Prostate, this is unfair!
- 0 (0%)
No, really - my miner's head was ripped off before he even started digging!
- 0 (0%)
OHMIGERD WHY OH WHY OH WHY
- 0 (0%)
Your sanity has crumbled to its end
- 0 (0%)
I'm a masochist.  This is the perfect spot for a new mountainhome!
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: November 16, 2013, 07:34:02 pm


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Author Topic: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]  (Read 13884 times)

WoobMonkey

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2013, 07:26:32 pm »

Yes, I've had some success (see my mid-summer report, above).  Had to turtle up through the first few waves of undead (flyers, all), but then got lucky and had a Pangolin Corpse spawn on the far SE corner of the map.  Quickly sent my logger out (with ALL other duties disabled), along with a plant gatherer, and watched them carefully.

Any time the Pangolin looked like it was even thinking of coming toward my little dugout bolt-hole, I'd reactivate the burrow.

Of course, I didn't watch quite carefully enough, in the end: managed to get enough logs to get started (barely, I hope, if I disassemble stuff as I go), but at the cost of two dwarfs.

It's quite do-able: you just have to focus on priorities, and be patient.  Your dwarves will bitch and moan; let 'em.  Wait until a clearing opens, and capitalize.

Also, remember that if something dies on the Joyous Wilds part of the map, it'll stay dead.  Just don't allow any corpses on the Terrifying part, ever; choose your time and place for battle carefully, when it's necessary.

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Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor - think you have what it takes?
CharmCrafted

The dog misses the ball!
The ball softly hits Urist McTrainer in the head, breaking the paper-thin skull and denting the non-existent brain!

Grimmash

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2013, 12:00:30 am »

Notable attempts so far:

5 killed on spawn.

4 killed on spawn.

Slit started, all dwarves lost to attrition while getting wood.

Slit not started due to putting butcher under the undead portion of the map.  All killed by yak skin.

On the plus side, I did successfully use the double slit method on another map.  I think some of the write ups of that technique are... off.  But I managed to make it work.

Side note:  There is no break in the aquifer layer.  i think this embark should go in the "Single Pick Hall of Fame" for sheer hideousness of the start.  I didn't even count the number of tries where flying undead spawned within days and took out most of the dwarves. The furthest I've gotten is holing up, with varying degrees of death by undead in various attempts to get wood.

FireCrazy

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2013, 03:33:28 am »

 Anyway, seems that im going to - MIGRANTS! YES!!!! WELCOM- Wait.. Oh NO NONON ONONONON NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(Migrants get slaughtered by the flying undead)

Only 3 children survived the slaughter.
So erm, that doesn't change my situation but more mouths to feed.
I really need more than just a pick and anvil to survive on this seriously harsh embark.
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Timeless Bob

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2013, 04:44:42 am »

When an embark relies this heavily on luck to get started, there really isn't much point to scoring it using judges.  I suggest the title be changed excluding the request for judges until at least three games have survived at least a year.
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WoobMonkey

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2013, 05:35:16 am »

I have one dwarf left.  Luckily, through the madness of a MASSIVE tantrum spiral... but I get ahead of myself.


Spoiler: aquifer project is go! (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: wha' happened? (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: state of the fortress (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: status of the dwarfs (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: stocks and justice (click to show/hide)

It's gonna be a long winter.

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Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor - think you have what it takes?
CharmCrafted

The dog misses the ball!
The ball softly hits Urist McTrainer in the head, breaking the paper-thin skull and denting the non-existent brain!

puutuulion

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2013, 10:12:10 am »

I've been taking a stab at this; I didn't realize the initial embark was also a minimalist start (replace the copper pick with a copper nugget and you have a true minimum embark.)  I believe this embark would be greatly served by adding ~20 wood to the embark inventory (due to the requirement of double-slitting.)  This would take out the luck factor of getting flying undead before you get enough wood to make it through the aquifer, and give the forts at least enough time to last until they starve/tantrum to death.

In any case, I can consistently get my dwarves holed up initially.  I use the caravan wood to get a training axe and a floor hatch, assign two non-miner cutters, and everyone else stockpiles wood.  I use a J-tunnel to keep undead out and dwarves in (i believe it's building destroyer-proof if you forbid the hatch.)  Side view:

ww>
¢#X
< ,<

The ww is two squares of the wagon.

The hatch is adjacent to a 5x5 room built under where the wagon starts (top view:)

#######
# , , , , , #
# , , , , , #
# , , , , , #
# , , , , , #
###¢###

This works every time, unless flying undead spawn on embark, in which case everyone but the miner gets immediately chased off to their demise.  Once I have the yaks, anvil, and wood inside, I burrow all the dwarves in and build+forbid the hatch.  At this point, I assess the situation and begin woodcutting either at the embark spot or in the northwest corner of the map (nothing seems to spawn up there.)  My first harvested wood become a second training axe, and my second becomes a second hatch (if I tunneled to an alternate location.)  It's also important to make sure you dig enough area for wood stockpiles (the wood needs to be in a hauler's hands as soon as it is cut; you likely have very little time before some undead camps out next to your down stairs and you seal-in the long haul.)  I pause the game every time a tree gets cut down and check the undead list.  New spawns = immediate burrowing.  Building a few beds, a chair, and a table will help stave off the inevitable tantrums, as does creating a hallway with a trench into the aquifer designated as a water source.

Right now my most common problem is undead yak skin/hair.  The undead butchering thing seems inconsistent; my last embark I was able to butcher, cook, and tan the first yak with no undead involvement, but on the second yak the skin immediately turned and started wreaking havoc.  Anyone have any advice on this?
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WoobMonkey

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2013, 11:01:56 am »

A few points:

1 Definitely NO to adding anything to the embark.  Heck, I nearly didn't include an anvil, as it makes trading not technically necessary, thus greatly lowering the difficulty of the challenge.

As to tips on embarking:

BEFORE UNPAUSING:

Set a very small (2 or 3x3) zone as a meeting area.  You need your dwarfs to not even consider wandering anywhere.  Create only 2 jobs: deconstructing the wagon, and digging.  I go for a single down-stair/up-stair, to a tiny room (it's in the upper centre of the main floor in my pictures above), into a 5x5 room.

It's very important to also set orders before setting anything in motion.  <o>rders --> <r>efuse --> set skins, hair, and corpses to dump by turning off gathering of those sorts.  Also, set the <F>orbid orders - forbid everything in this sub-menu.  When the time comes, you can reclaim things as you need them.

Of course, also set at least one beard as a miner, and one as a carpenter.

DOUBLE-TAP SPACEBAR.

Only let the game run a few ticks, then check the units screen for hostiles.  They will be present on the map; what matters is what and where.  In my embark, there were 4 Giant Sparrow Person Corpses from the north-centre of the map, just a few seconds away.  This is why you want the first meeting area designated; otherwise, your draft animals are likely to to wander off and alert the mobs.

'The issue's not whether you're paranoid, Lenny, I mean look at this shit, the issue is whether you're paranoid enough.' <"Max," Strange Days (1995; film)>

Keep a close eye on the baddies, but an even closer eye on your dwarfs.  As soon as your miner has dug out a few squares of your bolt-hole (you don't need the whole room; waiting is suicide), designate a new meeting area inside.  While still paused, set a 3-tile stockpile for wood and a 1-tile pile for furniture.  That will bring 3 logs, an anvil, and 4 dwarfs inside.  Your animals will path to the new zone as well, along with the other dwarf.

This is a critical moment.  Not all of your dudes may be quick enough; relax, they're all skill-less and expendable.  More are guaranteed to come, if you can keep at least one of these guys alive until the end of summer, at the latest.

What is important is that one of your animals makes it in.  With this much aquifer to battle, you'll need the meat.

As soon as your dwarfs are in (or the undead get too close, whichever is first), use one of your logs to build a wall across the entrance.  In my take at this, this was the 2nd of Granite; I had to abandon 4maskwolf to the undead, as he had for some reason decided to wander AWAY from the stairs when I switched up meeting areas; oh well.

By the time you're all huddled in (expand the meeting area to fill the room to keep whatever beast in place), your miner should be digging down, looking for the aquifer.  Once it's been hit, channel a tile or two into it, dig out beside that, and set that to your designated drinking area.  Now your beards won't die of thirst.

You now have 2 logs and an aquifer to deal with.  Everything from here assumes 'and set someone the proper job' as a given.

Personally, I built a butcher shop (making sure that it was firmly OFF the spooky part of the map; more on this later), dug a little 'just in case' drop pit, and killed the yaks (both bulls anyways, iirc.  When I have a female, my habit is to hang on to it until either it, or my dwarfs, are famished).

So, that's food and water taken care of.  I deconstruct the butcher's, leaving us with 2 logs again.  If I'd been thinking, I'd have kept the skin and hair accessible, to make a leather seedbag and some thread - but more on that in a bit.

While that's happening, I had my miner digging out the place where I planned to pierce the aquifer. 

I think it was about the 10th of Granite or so, by this point. 

Then, before I forget, I build a carpenter's shop, make an axe, then deconstruct the shop.  We now have 1 log, an axe, and a wooden wall which can be deconstructed later in necessary.

That's when I dug out the longish escape tunnel, in the bottom left of the main hall.  Then I sent my miner off to dig the big part of the room, and gain a little experience swinging his pick, while we waited for a chance to strike the surface.  I think, in my game, that was about a month and a half of sitting on our thumbs, until a non-flyer spawned (Giant Weasel Corpse) in the SE corner of the map.  Once the last batch of flyers was off the map, I deconstructed the wall, designated a few trees (making sure my plant gatherers and lumberdorf both had wood hauling turned OFF) and a few shrubs for harvest.

From there, the rest is DF as normal, but with impatient and angry dwarfs.

Quote
Right now my most common problem is undead yak skin/hair.  The undead butchering thing seems inconsistent; my last embark I was able to butcher, cook, and tan the first yak with no undead involvement, but on the second yak the skin immediately turned and started wreaking havoc.  Anyone have any advice on this?

Make sure that any killing and/or butchering you do or have done to you is on the Joyous Wilds part of the map.  Then stuff will stay dead.  If you butcher, or even stockpile, any skin, corpses, or hair under/on/over the Terrifying parts, they will reanimate and give you a really bad headache.

You can tell which biome is which; the FUN one is brown and covered in dead trees.

Main point of advice: persevere.  You'll be surprised just how much you can accomplish, with nearly no resources.  I got lucky with the second migration wave: one of them was a hunter, who came with steel bolts.  I naturally took him off hunting (just as with fisherdorfs, can't afford to traipse off outside), but those bolts were the only trade item I had when the caravan arrived.  Well, some of the caravan; no freakin' way I'm gonna open up a 3-tile-wide entryway without some sort of bridging mechanism or airlock.

Hope that helps a bit - this embark is a heckofalot of Joyous FUN!
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Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor - think you have what it takes?
CharmCrafted

The dog misses the ball!
The ball softly hits Urist McTrainer in the head, breaking the paper-thin skull and denting the non-existent brain!

Monitor Lisard

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2013, 12:49:37 pm »

So, I'm finally doing it.

1 iron anvil - check!
1 copper pick - check!
7 crazy alcoholic midgets ready to die for the glory - check!

LET'S GET READY TO RRRUMBLE!!!

Ok, here we go: the starting seven had arrived. Assigned them to a burrow.



A bunch of undead tamarin lion people immediately appeared near the borders of the fortress.



Well, f**k them! I'm digging a hole right hear the wagon. While the miner was working, peasants were attacked. One of them was killed, but i managed to save the rest. The dwarves constructed a hatch cover, so the retreat was ready.

I drafted everyone in the newly-assembled militia. GO GO CHARCOAL DIAMONDS!



Oh, what is it? A big lizard? Come here, scaly buddy... EWWW IT A CORPSE  :(



Ok, it's been smooth for a while... Got a training axe constructed and one of the yaks butchered. The recruits killed the last tamarin lion man and the corpse of the fallen peasant. What, what's that? A dead yak? Our militia will deal with it in a minute! Wait... It's killing everyone! NOOO!



That's it.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 01:09:51 pm by Monitor Lisard »
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This artwork relates to the killing of the troll Ozyydif Kuilat by the cheese Eritoy Awexog in the early spring of 71

puutuulion

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2013, 12:03:17 pm »

I've gotten the first wave of migrants in safely (complete luck - the half dozen armadillo man/woman corpses just happened to be on the wrong side of the map at the time they came.)  The two yaks are fully cooked, made leather armor from the two hides and thread from all the hair and I've got bone helms and gauntlets for up to 5 wrestlers (only 3 drafted so far; most of my migrants were children.)  All the remaining bone turned into bone crafts, which I've got neatly stockpiled just inside the forbidden hatch next to the depot.  Depot is 1 z-level below the surface, at the end of a 3-wide tunnel that ramps up near the map edge.  The wagons have only one way in and one way out, and if they lure anything nasty to them it can only hit my dwarves if they were right in the middle of transporting good to/from the depot.  I've also got some farms ready for planting if the first caravan brings any of the relevant seeds/plants.

I've also got the double-slit down to the bottom aquifer layer, which is about half sealed now.  I managed to get enough wood clearing out the space near the wagon ramp and the embark spot (I had a narrow window where the armadillo corpses left before the giant sparrow corpses showed up.)

Unfortunately I won't have time to play any further.  The caravan would have showed up any day, and I can imagine that as my most likely chance of death (I really need some seeds and/or seeding plants.)  Failing access to the caravan (i.e. sighted by rampaging sparrows or if they don't have seeds/plants for some reason,) my next plan would have been to finish the aquifer breach and make stone blocks, then make a mad-dash attempt to create a sealed outdoor area for some surface farming.  This would almost certainly cause some sort of undead steamrolling, but is really the only option I'd have left without access to a food/beverage trade.
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WoobMonkey

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2013, 12:18:12 pm »

There's a better option than surface farming.  Dash down to the caverns, instead, and get some spores going.  Cavern nasties tend to be less deadly than surface corpses; if you have enough food to wait a litte bit, you don't even have to gather from the caverns - just dig out a bunch of the sand layer, and wait for stuff to sporulate.
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Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor - think you have what it takes?
CharmCrafted

The dog misses the ball!
The ball softly hits Urist McTrainer in the head, breaking the paper-thin skull and denting the non-existent brain!

Grimmash

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2013, 09:56:35 pm »

Ok.  I have tried the double slit method for three nights, and once I get past the first layer of the aquifer, digging any of the topmost or bottommost wall spots north or south of the slit doesn't work.  They just fill with water to 3/4 and never go back down to 1.  Even using the . to one-step and start the wall leads to the wall being unable to complete.  Any advice?

WanderingKid

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2013, 10:42:47 pm »

Don't overdig. Do only one wall slot at a time or the pump can't keep up.

Grimmash

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2013, 12:06:10 am »

That's what I have been doing.

Here is the setup:



First Aquifer Layer z=0
-WWWW-
WXXXXW
W.%%.W
-WWWW-
Second Layer z=-1
-1--1-
-X--X-
-X--X-
-1--1-
Third Layer z=-2
------
-X--X-
-X--X-
------


If I dig out a single "1" shown in that second layer, with the pump going, it immediately rises to water level 4-5, and I cannot get the wall built there.  It works on the east and west sides, sometimes on the south, but never on the north.  I've tried this at least 4-5 times tonight, in different places on the map.  Doing the first layer seems to pump/drain fine, but the second layer just doesn't work.

Am I missing something?

WoobMonkey

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2013, 01:22:31 am »

Are you trying to pull water up through a staircase?  Make sure you've channeled out the tile from which the pump is pulling water.

Otherwise, I dunno.  works fine for me.
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Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor - think you have what it takes?
CharmCrafted

The dog misses the ball!
The ball softly hits Urist McTrainer in the head, breaking the paper-thin skull and denting the non-existent brain!

WanderingKid

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Re: Edangzak Utharsanad Gedor [Players and Judges Needed!]
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2013, 04:41:56 am »

Grim,

Stick the save in Wimbli.  Something is horribly weird there.
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