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[GreatWyrmGold]

Allied factions consider you one of their own-you can usually call upon at least 1000 Gold worth of favors per favor level, and you will find yourself benefiting in many non-direct ways, as well. Of course, such a position also comes with responsibility-and dangers.
Friendly factions trust you implicitly-you have proven yourself, but are not yet beholden to them. You gain at least 500 Gold worth of favors per level, and all members of this faction are likely to help you in battle if they spot you in trouble.
Neutral factions don't dislike you, but they have no reason to aid you either-not that they are barred from either. There is no reward at this level, but the members will usually refrain from attacking you. Most unlisted factions can be considered neutral or worse.
Unfriendly factions are beginning to dislike you. They will not aid you at all, and will make trouble if you wander into their territory. They may not openly assault you yet, but they are certainly keeping an eye out. It is difficult, but not impossible to make amends-usually by undertaking a quest with no open reward.
Hostile factions will attack you on sight-for whatever reason, you've been marked for death. They will actively hunt you, even outside of their normal territory and devote resources to ending your life. There is almost no way to repair this level of reputation.

All of those except Allied correspond to levels of personal trust, ie for the Diplomacy skill. Was this intentional? Would similar mechanics for (say) Diplomacy checks apply?

FL

What does this stand for? Is it supposed to be a measure of how the characters are viewed by the factions?

[Dwarmin]

@Gwg: Yeah-favors and influence as such tend to be implied and heavily based on your personal  interactions with those people.

Higher levels would give you a diplomacy bonus against people who view you more favorably, and a penalty to convincing them opposite. Consider the level of favor to be what an ordinary member regards you at with no bias, and it's more difficult to move those opinions higher or lower because they are part of an organization.

FL is Favor Level. It's how *Strong* those feelings are-and if positive it affects the rewards you can get from the faction the resources you could call on.

Or if your reputation negative, it's how many resources they devote in opposition to you.

[Deep Waters]

Allied factions consider you one of their own-you can usually call upon at least 1000 Gold worth of favors per favor level, and you will find yourself benefiting in many non-direct ways, as well. Of course, such a position also comes with responsibility-and dangers.
Friendly factions trust you implicitly-you have proven yourself, but are not yet beholden to them. You gain at least 500 Gold worth of favors per level, and all members of this faction are likely to help you in battle if they spot you in trouble.
Neutral factions don't dislike you, but they have no reason to aid you either-not that they are barred from either. There is no reward at this level, but the members will usually refrain from attacking you. Most unlisted factions can be considered neutral or worse.
Unfriendly factions are beginning to dislike you. They will not aid you at all, and will make trouble if you wander into their territory. They may not openly assault you yet, but they are certainly keeping an eye out. It is difficult, but not impossible to make amends-usually by undertaking a quest with no open reward.
Hostile factions will attack you on sight-for whatever reason, you've been marked for death. They will actively hunt you, even outside of their normal territory and devote resources to ending your life. There is almost no way to repair this level of reputation.

All of those except Allied correspond to levels of personal trust, ie for the Diplomacy skill. Was this intentional? Would similar mechanics for (say) Diplomacy checks apply?

FL

What does this stand for? Is it supposed to be a measure of how the characters are viewed by the factions?

I imagine it's more of a long-term thing than a short-term one, so Diplomacy wouldn't be as helpful. That skill is pretty broken as-is, anyway.

As for FL, it's Favored Level. I'm not sure how it's determined or how it works, but it's capped at your character level and seems to be a way of scaling faction usefulness as you go up in power. Of course, at lv20 20,000gp is a pittance afaik, but hey it kind of makes sense considering it's low-level characters that get the most out of being in a faction anyway.

((Fun Fact: It's said somewhere in the official supplements that you can do a rough conversion of gold pieces into American dollars by saying that 1sp = $2. So, 1gp = $20. Of course, it wouldn't be exact seeing as availability would be vastly different, but still-- it's a nice shorthand for seeing exactly how wealthy you are and what items are really worth.))

PRENINJA'D BECAUSE TOO LAZY TO EDIT: So wait-- what's the Diplomacy bonus scale, exactly?

EDIT ANYWAY BECAUSE FORGOT: Btw, Dwarm-- working on those deity description things. This is probably gonna be a lot more information than you strictly asked for, but hey at least I haven't started describing the architectural style of Metia's temples yet. <.<

[Dwarmin]

You are right tho, diplomacy is broken if one goes strictly by the book.

I've no idea of the number yet. But percentage wise, I mean, an allied guy should be at least 50% more likely to be convinced of something, right? *shrug*

And generally, doing a faction quest will raise your favor however many level the average CR of the encounters was, to your level cap.

And yes, 20000 isn't much. But I'm not talking about literal money here, though you could certainly request it. Obviously the better groups can offer more financial rewards.

The Lowtown Sprawls for example won't have chests of gold and gemstones to throw around, but they'll be able to find damn near anyone in the city-especially those who try to hide among them looking for obscurity. They could whip up a mob to storm the prison-distracting the guards of you can rescue your friends. And stuff like that.

[GiglameshDespair]

That all seems really cool to me. I like it.

[lawastooshort]

That all seems really cool to me. I like it.

I was just about to say this too.

[GiglameshDespair]

Is fly an automatic thing or is it also a skill? Because looking at things online I got contradicting opinions.

[Deep Waters]

Is fly an automatic thing or is it also a skill? Because looking at things online I got contradicting opinions.

Automatic. It's running, but with a lot more complicated rules involved. You may be thinking of maneuverability or riding steeds capable of flight.

[GiglameshDespair]

As a final and theoretical question, what if someone had levels in both wizard and sorcerer?

Would they have to scribe some spells to use later and have some they just remember? Only one familiar, of course. It wouldn't really make sense. I wonder if there's some kind of rule against it.

[Deep Waters]

As a final and theoretical question, what if someone had levels in both wizard and sorcerer?

Would they have to scribe some spells to use later and have some they just remember? Only one familiar, of course. It wouldn't really make sense. I wonder if there's some kind of rule against it.

No rule against it. I presume that, by RAW, spell lists would be tracked separately. Dunno if there are any general houserules that most GMs follow for it, like for the hp thing or something. It's also a pretty crappy idea crunchwise, though I could see it working in fluff.

[GiglameshDespair]

I suppose so. Wouldn't really work mechanically or fluff-wise, I'd imagine.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The spells would be tracked separately. The levels would stack for the familiar, though.

[Silcugar]

Hey Dwarm, could I get a link to the lore thread you're talking about?

@Waters, Those gods could work! I'm hesitant to use the supplemental domains simply because they over complicate things, but since these are supplemental gods, I see no problem. Also, as a side note, I meant for the 'Child' or sibling titles indicate origin, not domains or themes. Like, Child of the Dead Winds would indicate an Air/Negative energy combination. But it's a small nitpick. Well, actually, seeing as how Rowbe is already a combination of two elements, further adding elements would over inflate the titles. Yeah, never mind about that, Child of 'x item' should be fine.

@Dwarmin, I'm not so sure about adding other Forgotten Gods. I mean, they are supposed to be the titans, the ultimate six, one to represent each of the inner planes, the six elements of DnD. However, we can make... another section of gods? Yeah. Whereas the First Ones represent races and the Small Gods represent qualities (and sometimes races too), this other section can represent minor facets made before the First Ones.

We can just call these the Facets, or the Aspects, or... I dunno.

In the end, I want the Forgotten Six to remain the six distant, all powerful, banished super-gods. But their children, cousins to the First Ones, can represent more elements. But if we are to add this section, we'll have to have enough gods to justify having the section in the first place.

Oh, I just remembered all the Quasi and Para elemental planes. We can associate all of those with new Facets. This first graph shows them all, and where they come from. I believe "Mineral" fills the "Metal" role nicely. If you want to include them, that is. These minor planes might just add unnecessary complexity to the lore.

What do you think?

EDIT: Oh, I forgot about your concerns, Kid! Sorry, the threads moving so fast. Anyways, making a First One of each alignment might be a problem. Each one is supposed to represent the major races, so if I made them equally evil and good, we'd have whole races worshiping evil gods, when the majority of them are good! But I should emphasize: The First Ones may be first, but they're no more powerful than the Small Gods. Evil characters shouldn't feel slighted by being forced to worship a 'lesser' god, because they're not lesser, they're just younger.

EDIT x2: I see none of the characters have any affiliation with any of the gods! The closest we have is 'Good gods'. It's not game breaking or anything, depending on the DM, but I expected the paladins/druid to have gods at the very least!

[Deep Waters]

Hey Dwarm, could I get a link to the lore thread you're talking about?

@Waters, Those gods could work! I'm hesitant to use the supplemental domains simply because they over complicate things, but since these are supplemental gods, I see no problem. Also, as a side note, I meant for the 'Child' or sibling titles indicate origin, not domains or themes. Like, Child of the Dead Winds would indicate an Air/Negative energy combination. But it's a small nitpick. Well, actually, seeing as how Rowbe is already a combination of two elements, further adding elements would over inflate the titles. Yeah, never mind about that, Child of 'x item' should be fine.

@Dwarmin, I'm not so sure about adding other Forgotten Gods. I mean, they are supposed to be the titans, the ultimate six, one to represent each of the inner planes, the six elements of DnD. However, we can make... another section of gods? Yeah. Whereas the First Ones represent races and the Small Gods represent qualities (and sometimes races too), this other section can represent minor facets made before the First Ones.

We can just call these the Facets, or the Aspects, or... I dunno.

In the end, I want the Forgotten Six to remain the six distant, all powerful, banished super-gods. But their children, cousins to the First Ones, can represent more elements. But if we are to add this section, we'll have to have enough gods to justify having the section in the first place.

Oh, I just remembered all the Quasi and Para elemental planes. We can associate all of those with new Facets. This first graph shows them all, and where they come from. I believe "Mineral" fills the "Metal" role nicely. If you want to include them, that is. These minor planes might just add unnecessary complexity to the lore.

What do you think?

it's in his party thread (which makes it sound like he's throwing some sort of forum party but that's not what's going on here) (at least) (i don't think it is...?)

For the reference's sake, here's all the elemental combinations that I could find (some of it is dredged up from some guy's Pathfinder website so it might be a headcanon/homebrew, but I'll include them anyway because why not)

Elementals
Positive Energy
Negative Energy
Earth
Fire
Water
Air

Quasi-Elementals
Positive Earth: Mineral
Negative Earth: Dust
Positive Fire: Radiance
Negative Fire: Ash
Positive Water: Steam
Negative Water: Salt
Positive Air: Lightning
Negative Air: Vacuum

Paraelementals
Earth + Fire: Magma
Earth + Water: Ooze
Fire + Air: Smoke
Water + Air: Ice

Quasi-Paraelementals
Positive Magma: Obsidian
Negative Magma: Pumice
Positive Ooze: Clay
Negative Ooze: Silt
Positive Ice: Crystal
Negative Ice: Frost
Positive Smoke: Spark
Negative Smoke: Fumes

Unused Elemental Combinations (That Aren’t Completely Stupid)
Earth + Air
Fire + Water
Positive Earth + Air
Negative Earth + Air
Positive Fire + Water
Negative Fire + Water
Magma + Ice
Ooze + Smoke
Positive Magma + Ice
Negative Magma + Ice
Positive Ooze + Smoke
Negative Ooze + Smoke

EDIT: Oh, I forgot about your concerns, Kid! Sorry, the threads moving so fast. Anyways, making a First One of each alignment might be a problem. Each one is supposed to represent the major races, so if I made them equally evil and good, we'd have whole races worshiping evil gods, when the majority of them are good! But I should emphasize: The First Ones may be first, but they're no more powerful than the Small Gods. Evil characters shouldn't feel slighted by being forced to worship a 'lesser' god, because they're not lesser, they're just younger.

EDIT x2: I see none of the characters have any affiliation with any of the gods! The closest we have is 'Good gods'. It's not game breaking or anything, depending on the DM, but I expected the paladins/druid to have gods at the very least!

i'm working on it, i swear

my paladin/crusader is gonna be devoted to malnir

but dwarm challenged me to a fluff-off and now i have to write at least three pages of fluff for each of my deities

[Silcugar]

I think including Quasi-Paraelementals is a bit much. The Qs and Ps are good enough, if already pushing it a little. I mean, I already don't expect the players to care about a minor god that controls/represents dust. After all, there's a reason those planes were taken out of the generic setting. The only relevant one is of mineral, and that's cuz it directly ties into your gods.

And Earth/Air and Fire/Water are complete collisions, and canonically nullify each other in violent ways, so I'd think only third generation combinations (Small Ones and onward) should represent those mixes.