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[GiglameshDespair]

Seeing all these variants and things... makes me wonder if there's any reason to play a vanilla druid/fighter/rogue etc because you could be a more powerful special variant instead. But I suppose it's also the difference between roleplaying and rollplaying.

[Remuthra]

Seeing all these variants and things... makes me wonder if there's any reason to play a vanilla druid/fighter/rogue etc because you could be a more powerful special variant instead. But I suppose it's also the difference between roleplaying and rollplaying.

Well, there's no reason your roleplay character can't be good at what he/she does.

That's where rule knowledge comes in. Believe me, if you really wanted to minmax, you could do so much more to these .

[scriver]

What would be the stance if Gestalt characters, by the way? And what about house rules?

[Culise]

Seeing all these variants and things... makes me wonder if there's any reason to play a vanilla druid/fighter/rogue etc because you could be a more powerful special variant instead. But I suppose it's also the difference between roleplaying and rollplaying.

If it makes you feel better, vanilla druid is considered one of the two greatest game-breakers in the game (CoDzilla = Cleric or Druid 'zilla), and while not broken (unless you count UMD shenanigans), a rogue is a solid middleweight that can certainly pull his or her own weight in a party.  Fighters need a bit more care with them, but are still effective in their primary role, and even they have their broken builds.  I don't really subscribe to the Stormwind fallacy; roleplaying versus rollplaying is a false dichotomy, and a character that breaks the game does so as a consequence of the player, not that particular character build in isolation. 

[Deep Waters]

i'm thinking about maybe doing a tank/supporter build-- pally perhaps

never played a paladin, but i've always done best playing either a tank or a support char-- it'd be interesting to see how a combo would fair

that low skill points thing is kind of iffy tho

Ah. Will you be going for a higher spellcasting paladin, then?

I'll be playing a paladin, but primarily using it for the mount, although it will depend on stat rolls.

probably, tho i'm thinking about getting a feat to key my spellcasting to charisma instead of wisdom-- can't remember where it is but i'm pretty sure there's one somewhere. that way all of my important abilities will be keyed to charisma. i'll probably get con over str too. i'm thinking the type of person who can draw attacks toward her and shrug them off easily-- does anyone know of an ability similar to taunt or the like, that draw the attention of all nearby enemies (that isn't skill-based, since I think bluff can do that but I'm not sure whether that goes against the code of conduct or not)? i'm pretty sure there's a feat somewhere that lets paladins have different mounts, so i'm really hoping that i can manage to swing something other than a plain ol' horse like a chocobo.

Seeing all these variants and things... makes me wonder if there's any reason to play a vanilla druid/fighter/rogue etc because you could be a more powerful special variant instead. But I suppose it's also the difference between roleplaying and rollplaying.

special variants can help in roleplaying by establishing a character more clearly, cutting away the bits that don't make sense based on the type of character that you want to play and letting you focus on the bits that do. plus, sometimes people just like to play differently, and there's only so far vanilla classes will stretch. while it does often help in minmaxing, that's hardly the only reason why people use variants. besides, it's perfectly possible to excel in both fluff and crunch without overdoing it in either.

What would be the stance if Gestalt characters, by the way? And what about house rules?

gestalt is incredibly broken from what i've heard/seen

and also looks incredibly hard to keep track of

[Remuthra]

i'm thinking about maybe doing a tank/supporter build-- pally perhaps

never played a paladin, but i've always done best playing either a tank or a support char-- it'd be interesting to see how a combo would fair

that low skill points thing is kind of iffy tho

Ah. Will you be going for a higher spellcasting paladin, then?

I'll be playing a paladin, but primarily using it for the mount, although it will depend on stat rolls.

probably, tho i'm thinking about getting a feat to key my spellcasting to charisma instead of wisdom-- can't remember where it is but i'm pretty sure there's one somewhere. that way all of my important abilities will be keyed to charisma. i'll probably get con over str too. i'm thinking the type of person who can draw attacks toward her and shrug them off easily-- does anyone know of an ability similar to taunt or the like, that draw the attention of all nearby enemies (that isn't skill-based, since I think bluff can do that but I'm not sure whether that goes against the code of conduct or not)? i'm pretty sure there's a feat somewhere that lets paladins have different mounts, so i'm really hoping that i can manage to swing something other than a plain ol' horse like a chocobo.

Well, I can say I'll be using a Celestial Elephant, by default, since my size-up means I need a Huge size mount. I once played a game with a rhinoceros as a paladin mount, so you could try for that.

[GiglameshDespair]

Looking up gestalt on dndwiki "characters essentially take classes at every level, taking the best aspects of each... especially effective with three or fewer players".
I think we have enough players we don't need to multirole.

Unrelated, using point buy, yes? Could someone give me a link to a point calculator please?

[Culise]

Looking up gestalt on dndwiki "characters essentially take classes at every level, taking the best aspects of each... especially effective with three or fewer players".
I think we have enough players we don't need to multirole.

Unrelated, using point buy, yes? Could someone give me a link to a point calculator please?

Invisible Castle is nice, since it does both point buy and rolls. 

probably, tho i'm thinking about getting a feat to key my spellcasting to charisma instead of wisdom-- can't remember where it is but i'm pretty sure there's one somewhere. that way all of my important abilities will be keyed to charisma. i'll probably get con over str too. i'm thinking the type of person who can draw attacks toward her and shrug them off easily-- does anyone know of an ability similar to taunt or the like, that draw the attention of all nearby enemies (that isn't skill-based, since I think bluff can do that but I'm not sure whether that goes against the code of conduct or not)? i'm pretty sure there's a feat somewhere that lets paladins have different mounts, so i'm really hoping that i can manage to swing something other than a plain ol' horse like a chocobo.

The only "taunt" abilities I could find during my attempt were the Knight's Test of Mettle and the Blade Bravo's Goad, though I think there may be more lurking out there in the wild wastes of the splatbooks.  Blade Bravo requires a Gnome and a one-level splash, while Knight only requires any Lawful but requires a four-level dip, and levelling in either will take away from your spellcasting by virtue of opportunity cost.  Both are special abilities tied to Charisma (which will be your strong suit) that the enemy have to make a Will save against.  I don't think that any taunt would play against a code of conduct, either; think of how challenges are declared in many traditional epics and troubadour tales like those surrounding Arthur or Roland.  You could also make an argument that it could play off of Diplomacy (change attitude: extra-Hostile), which has the benefit of also being in your class list. ^_^

[GreatWyrmGold]

Culise: Knight/Crusader
Remuthra: Paladin
Deep Waters: Paladin

We should have enough holy warriors for three GMs.

The impression I've got so far is that for melee bigger is better, but I don't know as much rulebook-fu as you all.

In general, big characters can cover more ground, use bigger weapons, and are stronger and tougher. So, typically yes. Big characters are usually best at melee, even if not all melee builds are best with a big character.

gestalt is incredibly broken from what i've heard/seen

Is playing a Troubleshooter broken? Gestalt is intended for completely separate use from normal campaigns.

[Deep Waters]

Ah. Will you be going for a higher spellcasting paladin, then?

I'll be playing a paladin, but primarily using it for the mount, although it will depend on stat rolls.

probably, tho i'm thinking about getting a feat to key my spellcasting to charisma instead of wisdom-- can't remember where it is but i'm pretty sure there's one somewhere. that way all of my important abilities will be keyed to charisma. i'll probably get con over str too. i'm thinking the type of person who can draw attacks toward her and shrug them off easily-- does anyone know of an ability similar to taunt or the like, that draw the attention of all nearby enemies (that isn't skill-based, since I think bluff can do that but I'm not sure whether that goes against the code of conduct or not)? i'm pretty sure there's a feat somewhere that lets paladins have different mounts, so i'm really hoping that i can manage to swing something other than a plain ol' horse like a chocobo.

Well, I can say I'll be using a Celestial Elephant, by default, since my size-up means I need a Huge size mount. I once played a game with a rhinoceros as a paladin mount, so you could try for that.

hm, well, if you're going for the normal paladin i might try for the paladin of freedom variant

it'd make for interesting roleplaying opportunities

as for mounts, i just really want something exotic

don't really know what exactly

The only "taunt" abilities I could find during my attempt were the Knight's Test of Mettle and the Blade Bravo's Goad, though I think there may be more lurking out there in the wild wastes of the splatbooks.  Blade Bravo requires a Gnome and a one-level splash, while Knight only requires any Lawful but requires a four-level dip, and levelling in either will take away from your spellcasting by virtue of opportunity cost.  Both are special abilities tied to Charisma (which will be your strong suit) that the enemy have to make a Will save against.  I don't think that any taunt would play against a code of conduct, either; think of how challenges are declared in many traditional epics and troubadour tales like those surrounding Arthur or Roland.  You could also make an argument that it could play off of Diplomacy (change attitude: extra-Hostile), which has the benefit of also being in your class list. ^_^

oh i found a nice one in complete adventurer actually! seems to be basically the same thing-- it's even named "goad". it's only single-target, which kind of makes me sad because i was hoping to double as crowd control, but it should still be useful enough. it's also a feat which is kind of a downside (i'd prefer feats more aligned toward healing and such) but hey you work with what you got. it turns out the feat i was thinking of for switching spellcaster key abilities is in bastards and bloodlines tho, which not only requires you to be a crossbreed of some sort (which wasn't in my character concept, but okay i can adapt) but is also 3.0. Dunno if that can be allowed. :/

say, are we using traits and flaws? because i love traits and flaws

[Culise]

Culise: Knight/Crusader
Remuthra: Paladin
Deep Waters: Paladin

We should have enough holy warriors for three GMs.

Alternately, we can get a head start on building Team (Oh) Gods. :3

[lawastooshort]

I want to play a rogue as kind of earlier stated.


Also, that strikes me as a lot of players already. If it'd help the GMs I'll drop out.

[Zako]

So what have we got so far as characters and players go? I'm not sure what class I should play to fill the gaps in what we're missing...

[Dwarmin]

Alls good, but us GM's need to actually get together and make a campaign for players to join

I notice no one commented on my idea!

[Zako]

Oh, and please decide on what books we can and can't use! That's really important!