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It was inevitable

15 (42.9%)

Winners don't do drugs

6 (17.1%)

I'll be back

2 (5.7%)

Drink the Kool Aid

6 (17.1%)

Groovy

3 (8.6%)

Insane in the membrane

3 (8.6%)

Total Members Voted: 35

[Harry Baldman]

"In other words, Ike, I was too trusting. I spoke directly and honestly, when what we needed was lies and distortions. I should have been speaking subserviently instead of as equals. I should have hidden my teeth, not said exactly where the line was so he'd know if he was going to cross it. I shouldn't have treated someone I wanted to make a friend with the respect as if they actually were one. I needed to treat him as prey, not as another predator."

"Cheesy animal metaphors aside (don't you just love 'em), let's say yeah. If being nice to people doesn't come naturally to you, do fake-nice instead - any sociopath will vouch for the effectiveness of fake-nice behavior. Or better yet, devote some thought to what you're going to say and what effect it's going to have before you open your hole - I'm a very good counterexample, going into tailspins of shit verbiage at the slightest provocation. But that's me, unfiltered. Natural me. When you want something from someone, you lie to them in such a way that it makes them well-disposed toward you. Natural me needs to keep his hole shut in that event."

"But what if you don't want to lie, you ask? Well, that's kind of tough. And also a bit overly categorical. Everyone has to lie sometime, if only by omission. We lie most to those who are important to us, whose opinion we value and who can present us things we need, usually to make sure of their approval. People who insist on being honest at all times in life are known as massive bags of dicks in polite society, and people who have no secrets usually have no true achievements, either. You need to soften your speech, manipulate the truth and make yourself seem more acceptable if you are in the business of making actual friends or allies, because everyone exists in a shared illusion of adjusted truths and unconsidered gaps, and the whole truth is usually more than a little unsettling because of it."

"Lying isn't bad, in summary. It's the grease that makes everything smoother! It costs nothing, and is very energy-efficient compared to murder and pillage. The power of elaborate lying is the collective superpower of organic life, and you can build some truly impressive things with it. So lie to someone today! For instance, tell me that this all makes sense to you and that you shall endeavor to follow my sage advice. That will hopefully stop me from yet more sophistry where I forget what I was arguing about in the middle of my speech, and we'll all start to talk about something more productive instead."

[Lenglon]

"There is a difference between lies of omission and actively lying. Words, symbols, language, Names, they have meaning. Twisting them twists yourself. I don't want to be twisted. I need to try to keep myself pure, if I want to return to what once was. I still want to become worthy of my old title. I don't think twisting myself will do anything but drive me from it. I do try to be nice, but that is very different from being polite."

"What about if when I want something from someone, I ask them for it? If when people are different from me, I just acknowledge it? Is what you're asking for a truly necessary web of lies, or is it just what you're used too?"

[Harry Baldman]

"There is a difference between lies of omission and actively lying. Words, symbols, language, Names, they have meaning. Twisting them twists yourself. I don't want to be twisted. I need to try to keep myself pure, if I want to return to what once was. I still want to become worthy of my old title. I don't think twisting myself will do anything but drive me from it. I do try to be nice, but that is very different from being polite."

"What about if when I want something from someone, I ask them for it? If when people are different from me, I just acknowledge it? Is what you're asking for a truly necessary web of lies, or is it just what you're used too?"

"Purity's kind of a dumb thing to strive for, if you don't mind me saying. There's absolutely no advantage to being pure. It's just a stagnant form of existence, isn't it?"

"By the way, yeah, omission is still lying, because your intent is still to deliberately mislead, just more subtly. Assholes simply like to use it as an exception because they, being assholes, have a penchant for technicalities. 'Ooh, but I didn't say that! I just made you infer something else on purpose, so it's totally your fault!' It's the blame game, but dumber."

"And asking for something exists apart from manipulation - you always have to ask for something. Manipulation is meant to make people more likely to give you what you ask for, or what you really want when you ask something else entirely. Everybody wants to fit in, so pointing out how they are different is also never appreciated as much as you'd think, except when being different means they fit in better. If you emphasize commonalities, you make people more likely to see themselves in you, empathize. Friends are made on commonalities, things they can share. And seeking commonalities is also a good reason for lying - it makes commonalities where there aren't any, and smoothens communication."

"Biggest problem is that you can't actually explain the principles of communication without them seeming sinister and unnatural. Which is why your reaction to this seems to be in the form of superficial moral judgments that make you feel oh so special and great. I am used to the web of lies, yeah. That's because I happen to be a social being and that's how most communication works aside from your purely hypothetical kind from the exploded galaxy of fantabulous wonderment or wherever it is you were plucked from. If you want to reform the system (though why would anyone want a social system composed purely of 100% honest bags of dicks is beyond me), feel free. But nobody is going to appreciate your trailblazing effort in the least, because it has no point and makes everything much worse."

[Lenglon]

"I don't think you're actually listening to me. You keep responding to something similar to what I'm saying, but with a totally different meaning. Stop it. You might be able to fool onlookers that way, but I know what I'm saying, and trying to play tricks with my words isn't convincing me to do what you want. It's just making me mad. Please stop it."

[Harry Baldman]

"I don't think you're actually listening to me. You keep responding to something similar to what I'm saying, but with a totally different meaning. Stop it. You might be able to fool onlookers that way, but I know what I'm saying, and trying to play tricks with my words isn't convincing me to do what you want. It's just making me mad. Please stop it."

"I don't think I'm twisting your words, am I? Maybe what you say is just very easy to misinterpret and unclear, especially if I happen to do it consistently. I can't read your mind, after- wait, I sort of can, can't I? Still, I'm mostly just taking what you say at face value. Or at least what I think you're saying."

[H4zardZ1]

"Exceptable, huh?"
If someone attacks to me, grab their used limbs or weapon. Same applies to thrown weapons.

[Lenglon]

"You're being long-winded, but you want me to speak less honestly. Yet when I ask you why, your answer is only that other people are doing it. You've said a lot more than that, but most of it makes no sense or is irrelevant. Like when you accused me of refusing to compromise. Or said that my family was just made up. Or saying I don't respect others. Or that I refuse to try to understand others. Or said I assume everyone but myself is evil. Or your attempt to pass judgement on my goals. I understand the point of lying to enemies or prey, but Ike, why should I lie to my friends like you want me to?"

[Harry Baldman]

"You're being long-winded, but you want me to speak less honestly. Yet when I ask you why, your answer is only that other people are doing it. You've said a lot more than that, but most of it makes no sense or is irrelevant. Like when you accused me of refusing to compromise. Or said that my family was just made up. Or saying I don't respect others. Or that I refuse to try to understand others. Or said I assume everyone but myself is evil. Or your attempt to pass judgement on my goals. I understand the point of lying to enemies or prey, but Ike, why should I lie to my friends like you want me to?"

"Good question! It depends on who your friends are, of course. Who is your friend?"

[Illgeo]

Try to interact with machinery, look if it influences mannequins.

[NAV]

"Irene, Ike, that's enough. You've gone far past the point of understanding each other better or solving problems and now you are both just adding more fuel to the fire, to use a bad metaphor. Stop. Let's get going already."

[Harry Baldman]

"Irene, Ike, that's enough. You've gone far past the point of understanding each other better or solving problems and now you are both just adding more fuel to the fire, to use a bad metaphor. Stop. Let's get going already."

"A very good point! And do believe me when I say that I'd love to get moving as soon as possible. Indeed, you could say that not moving out has put me in a rather unfriendly mood, as Irine can no doubt attest to."

let's get moving already my god

[Xantalos]

still shooting Irine in the butt

[Lenglon]

"Good question! It depends on who your friends are, of course. Who is your friend?"

"Stellar, River, Theri, Zechariah, maybe Zoe, and maybe you."
((Paris, HB has been asking to move out soonish for quite a while now. please don't hold up the game for this conversation.))

[Harry Baldman]

"Good question! It depends on who your friends are, of course. Who is your friend?"

"Stellar, River, Theri, Zechariah, maybe Zoe, and maybe you."

"Hm. Well, don't know who Stellar or Zoe are, and I know basically nothing about Theri, and talking about Riv doesn't seem like a good idea, so... hm... Well, imagine when you want to do something, but the other won't be capable of understanding why, or wouldn't be able to forgive you if they knew the reason, or hold violently opposed views to your own. But you value their cooperation nonetheless - in these situations it's highly beneficial to lie to them and misrepresent yourself, present to them a version of you that is easy to understand and accept. You don't have to, of course, but it smoothens things in a great number of ways, much more so than getting into an argument with them about it would. Nobody agrees on everything, after all. And sometimes you just lack the time to explain yourself acceptably, and must offer a misleading, quicker explanation to see your plans come to fruition on schedule. Does that make sense to you? And even if it doesn't, can you take a moment to imagine why your friends might feel this way?"

[Lenglon]

"That's different, because we're in competition with each other. We're temporarily enemies then."