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[mainiac]

On phone so Zeppelin's

Blimps and Zeppelin's always return to earth in a storm. That isn't an option for Venus city. For decades we have had space craft that have operated in orbit just like an orbital city would.  Just do more of the same. Higher orbit and bigger station. Then you can start using off world resources to grow.

[Starver]

On phone so Zeppelin's

On tablet, but not at all forced to use an apostrophe (although the keyboard uses up half the height of the display, which is awkward) and really a spill-chucker/bord-wodger forces possessive but not plural of a semi-obscure word..? Meh. It was an aside. Never mind.

Blimps and Zeppelin's always return to earth in a storm. That isn't an option for Venus city. For decades we have had space craft that have operated in orbit just like an orbital city would.  Just do more of the same. Higher orbit and bigger station. Then you can start using off world resources to grow.

They do because it is easy.  A leaking venusblimp would be easiest to fix in flight. Easiest to resupply in flight. Easiest to reach from orbit to assist or escape to orbit upon evacuation.  "We do this thing, and the other things, not because they are easy but we also do not make them harder than they need to be." To paraphrase.

A leaking orbital station would lose air quicker. It may be proof against storms (which we currently do not have enough data over, but 50km is likely to be less turbulent, and well above surface features) but it is more susceptible to random space-debris and a puncture of whatever kind can immediately escalate to a disaster, not merely a lingering problem.  Especially if in  a section stressed by centripetal/centrifugal forces as part of the necessary habitability of the station.

But design elements could be swayed by future information.  Right now, the balance of probability is very much hypotjetical.

[Dorsidwarf]

The ISS has managed, what, 20 years without any serious impact, and Venusian space is much emptier than LEO.

OTOH a station would have no reason to be made other than 'because', and the same with a blimp-city. (The logistics of creating and maintaining which are mindfucking)

[mainiac]

It is the same reason as an oil rig. To access resources. Space has much more solar energy then earth. Metals and volatiles outside a gravity well are valuable. Like bring about post scarcity valuable.

[Starver]

The ISS has managed, what, 20 years without any serious impact, and Venusian space is much emptier than LEO.

It's had its moments,.  As has a predecessor, hence a lot of the caution with docking, these days, unless you want to skip resupply operations and just concentrate on the natural dangers entirely.

And (as well as why we're sending men(/women) to venus) that's the bit we need more information on. But by the time someone is seriously thinking of it, we'll have better ideas about all of that. Right now, we know we could orbit Venus (to observe? Like an unmanned probe?) or float in its atmosphere (like an unmanned probe, again) and once we know why we want actual people there (long-term hands-on analysis of the atmosphere?), that'll be part of the mission-spec.

Personally, I think people orbiting Venus is probably the bigger waste of time. Assuming you need people at Venus for more than a fly-by'n'slingshot on the way to somewhere else that they will land on...

[origamiscienceguy]

venus takes the least delta-v to get to, so it can be useful for slingshots.

[Starver]

venus takes the least delta-v to get to, so it can be useful for slingshots.

...for which you don't 'stop off'. You slingshot. Hence why I think the first manned visit to (the vicinity of) Venus will be a flying visit at best. No orbit, no upper atmosphere, no landing.

Until we have some other reason, like to battle with the Mekon!

[LordBaal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus
Interesting readings by all means. Both orbital and floating colonies are proposed. As well as terraforming, which in my opinion should be long term goal of ALL of our colonies whenever possible.

[GiglameshDespair]

And (as well as why we're sending men(/women) to venus) that's the bit we need more information on. But by the time someone is seriously thinking of it, we'll have better ideas about all of that. Right now, we know we could orbit Venus (to observe? Like an unmanned probe?) or float in its atmosphere (like an unmanned probe, again) and once we know why we want actual people there (long-term hands-on analysis of the atmosphere?), that'll be part of the mission-spec.

Well, we could live on Venus, it holding a few advantages over hard vac.
Or, more technically, floating in the upper atmosphere. At 50km high, the conditions are remarkably earthlike - 1 atmo of pressure, with a temperature a mere 0-50 degrees. No risk of explosive decompression, the atmosphere provides radiation shielding equivalent to Earth's, and a nice 0.904gs stops your bones from turning to glass.

It's easier to reach than Mars, with more flight windows and shorter flights.

Breathable air is a lifting gas, meaning the floating colonies would be able to lift themselves. You'd be able to go outside without a pressure suit, though you'd still need protection from the heat, acidity, and a supply of...

Oh, I got ninjad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus
Interesting readings by all means. Both orbital and floating colonies are proposed. As well as terraforming, which in my opinion should be long term goal of ALL of our colonies whenever possible.

[Il Palazzo]

Nobody has ever tried building anything, yet alone a self-sufficient city in those conditions - i.e. gravity, and pressure differences, but no ground to stand on.
Which means that contrary to what some have said, we don't have the technology to do it. It would have to be developed from scratch, with limited capacity for testing.
This makes Mars a much move viable prospect, for pretty much the same gains.

[Starver]

Oh, I got ninjad.

Quite a lot. I'm already (on balance) on the side of the 30-mile-high club, and the arguments for it were given (by others) a page or two back... 

(We have tech enough to prototype, IP, in a balloon-equipped atmospheric probe. Sending something that supports a habitat, never mind a city, is a leap but once we've investigated the conditions with such a probe, and expanded our tested capabilities in several other projects...)

[mainiac]

You could test it five feet off the ground in a wind tunnel.

[RedKing]

NASA just announced that any published science done with NASA funding will be made available to the public for free.

So that's pretty cool.

[mainiac]

What page can I find lizardmen on?

[redwallzyl]

NASA just announced that any published science done with NASA funding will be made available to the public for free.

So that's pretty cool.

this is really something that should be done for all scientific research. its idiotic that basically all new discovery's are locked behind a thousand paywalls.