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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 366874 times)

Egan_BW

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1050 on: August 13, 2015, 11:27:43 pm »

If you consider humans boring.
It's not like any interesting things happen on earth, right? :P
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Frumple

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1051 on: August 13, 2015, 11:34:08 pm »

What if we are the only sentient life?
If there's none out there, we'll just have to make some on our own, simple as that. Rate that technology's going, by the time we're comfortably colonizing other planets, uplifting non-sophonts or custom building intelligent species from the ground up shouldn't really be that big of an issue, on the technical side of things.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1052 on: August 13, 2015, 11:39:00 pm »

In fact, it would be quite hard for us to avoid becoming multiple species in the long run.
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PTTG??

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1053 on: August 13, 2015, 11:46:03 pm »

What if we are the only sentient life? I don't care how unlikely it is but just think about it what if we truely are the only sentient life that will ever travel the stars and see and learn and live the wonders of this massive universe

Such an occurrence implies that human beings are, for whatever reason, special quite beyond any reasonable probability. Intelligence and sentience emerged from naturally-occurring phenomenon on earth... which is to say that, so far as all our evidence shows, they ARE naturally occurring phenomenon.

If we could somehow prove that we are literally the only sentient life in existence, that fact itself would more than anything else point to the existence of some kind of force that favors human beings on a galactic level. But that is a big assumption that relies on an even larger one.

It's much more reasonable to assume that our limited examinations of space have failed to see other sentience simply because we have only the crudest tools with which to search.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1054 on: August 14, 2015, 12:04:20 am »

As a follow up, would you imagine that a genocidal or a non-genocidal race is going to do a better job spreading themselves out?
I've been working on the mechanics of a game (off and on, for a while now) which can be considered to have a rock-paper-scissors component to it.

Warlike empires trounce verdant federations through war and sheer attrition, but (whilst focussing on being aggressive to their visible enemies) are vulnerable to surreptitious enclaves infiltrating territories without their knowledge.
The federations outcompete the enclaves through blatant expansionism, but (without shifting 'policy') are no match for a hostile attack.
The enclaves easily inveigle their way into disputed territories, but (until and unless they raising their profile and thus break cover) cannot hope to out-produce and out reproduce the federations.

(Noting that "empire", "federation" and "enclave" are just some temporary titles I'm using for this limited example, it's not a strict tripartite system, but could be boiled down to it by removing some nuances...)

Of course, this is (a very small subset of) gameplay, still far from being perfected, that is meant to create a balanced experience between playing styles.  It is not a predictor of the Real Life™ situation that we would expect to see.
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1055 on: August 14, 2015, 12:21:05 am »

+1 on the "If we truly are alone in the universe, we should make our own company" answer.

In fact, we should make our own company regardless. It would better prepare us for alien modalities of thought, since uplifted organisms would have very different baseline evolutionary habits from us, and while they would be based off humans for their sapience, would still be prone to rather alien modalities of thought from us.  (Not as alien as say, the hypothetical sentient amoeba from kepler 72b (made up)-- but still alien to US, and thus something to help bridge the gap and prepare us for when we may eventually meet such creature.)

However, bioethicists seem to feel that creating sentience just to create sentience is somehow immoral, and not something to do. I sometimes wonder how they reconcile their circular logic on the matter, and how they reconcile the notion of having children. (The circular logic goes like this: Creating non-human sentience, or human-animal hybrids that are sentient creates a sentient being that would not fit in with human society, and thus be ostracised-- Thus, immoral. However, when you actually think about it-- if enough of them are created, they have their own society and they dont need human society at all-- so we are basically denying them existence for our own protection, which is immoral. But creating enough of them to be their own cultural group requires first creating just a few, which means immoral point 1. Spin spin spin, rinse and repeat.  Further, similar arguments were created during segregation about willfully having a mixed race child, which would not fit in with either "pure" racial cultural circle. Except that that was bullshit, as history has shown. In short, I question the actual ethics of these bioethicists.)

Now, arguments against the possible creation of new zoonotic pathogens that suddenly are now able to also infect humans, because somebody wanted a half-dolphin baby that swims in the ocean-- Those are legitimate concerns. (Endemic procine retrovirus was found to mutate very quickly in swine-human hybrid stemcell cultures, such that it could then infect pure human tissue. Something it normally cannot do.  Uplifted animal people would present a massive contagion hazard to human civilization. THAT is a legitimate ethical problem. The "Wont fit in" one is bullshit circular reasoning.)
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LordBaal

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1056 on: August 14, 2015, 09:07:09 am »

I remember some history it was some kind of fanfiction or amateur writing where planet Earth was being watched by some aliens and they witnesses of both world wars and some other atrocities and simply decided "fuck we dont want them infecting our galaxy, release the kraken" and sent a killing star our way. However centuries passed since aiming and the info lag played their worst and as the proyectile grew closer they saw how we evolved and left the warlike nature. They felt stupid for being overjudgmental (is that even a word?) And prayed for us to survive. We did, and quickly went back to full genocidal mode but instead of against each other it was against the aliens. The second part was about the human invasion and how many of the aliens made some kind of  ritual suicidal cult over their guilty and whatnot...
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Sebastian2203

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1057 on: August 15, 2015, 03:35:55 am »

So I just watch some inferior-low-budget local-TV documentary with Steve Hawking.
It starts off with "Time Travel is possible".
Rest of it is just me constantly yelling in my mind the 20 reasons why is time travel to PAST impossible.
Then in the last minute he admits it is impossible, and only possibility is travel to future.
Why couldnīt he say it at the beginning?
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1058 on: August 15, 2015, 05:02:34 am »

I remember some history it was some kind of fanfiction or amateur writing where planet Earth was being watched by some aliens and they witnesses of both world wars and some other atrocities and simply decided "fuck we dont want them infecting our galaxy, release the kraken" and sent a killing star our way. However centuries passed since aiming and the info lag played their worst and as the proyectile grew closer they saw how we evolved and left the warlike nature. They felt stupid for being overjudgmental (is that even a word?) And prayed for us to survive. We did, and quickly went back to full genocidal mode but instead of against each other it was against the aliens. The second part was about the human invasion and how many of the aliens made some kind of  ritual suicidal cult over their guilty and whatnot...
One of the HFY stories when that was a phase.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1059 on: August 15, 2015, 05:04:40 am »

So I just watch some inferior-low-budget local-TV documentary with Steve Hawking.
It starts off with "Time Travel is possible".
Rest of it is just me constantly yelling in my mind the 20 reasons why is time travel to PAST impossible.
Then in the last minute he admits it is impossible, and only possibility is travel to future.
Why couldnīt he say it at the beginning?
I believe it's called a 'hook and line'.  And it seems you were successfully played by it...
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1060 on: August 15, 2015, 12:13:42 pm »

I dunno. A combination of FTL and quantum teleportation (very large scale-- enough for a human body) could allow one to completely leave their lightcone of origin, and thus be able to intersect their past lightcone.

Amusingly, this would get around the "same particles" silliness that is a TV trope about time travel. (the whole "dont touch your past self!" bullshit.) The teleported version of yourself is really a quantum duplicate, where the original is destroyed, meaning it is made of different particles (From a causality point of view).

But then again, as the saying goes; Causality, FTL, Time travel: Pick two.


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kilakan

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1061 on: August 15, 2015, 12:20:02 pm »

What if we are the only sentient life?
If there's none out there, we'll just have to make some on our own, simple as that. Rate that technology's going, by the time we're comfortably colonizing other planets, uplifting non-sophonts or custom building intelligent species from the ground up shouldn't really be that big of an issue, on the technical side of things.
I'd just like to mention that there's a lot of other species on earth that could be considered sentient or at the very least extremely close to it in terms of intelligence.  I mean sure, we all share the same planet but if life on one world can give multiple rise to very intelligent species I don't see why it wouldn't happen elsewhere.  That is unless we are the only _life_ in the universe in which case yeah to above mentioned seeding of creatures!

This is also kinda a ptw
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Sheb

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1062 on: August 15, 2015, 12:21:19 pm »

Not that many, and only very recently. For most of life's history, life was pretty damn stupid.
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Sebastian2203

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1063 on: August 15, 2015, 12:23:19 pm »

I dunno. A combination of FTL and quantum teleportation (very large scale-- enough for a human body) could allow one to completely leave their lightcone of origin, and thus be able to intersect their past lightcone.

Amusingly, this would get around the "same particles" silliness that is a TV trope about time travel. (the whole "dont touch your past self!" bullshit.) The teleported version of yourself is really a quantum duplicate, where the original is destroyed, meaning it is made of different particles (From a causality point of view).

But then again, as the saying goes; Causality, FTL, Time travel: Pick two.

I am not sure what exactly light cone is, but I am assuming it basically your photon reflection.
Which is illusion, so it is not really time travel... but again the concept of time travel is little bit ... paradoxy
Also I am not very informed about this form of subject so sorry if I misunderstood your post.

EDIT: Ah thats how you meant it... still I do not believe in time travel anyway. It would mean we all live in millions infinite of different versions of ourselves in different time scale
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 12:26:50 pm by Sebastian2203 »
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1064 on: August 15, 2015, 02:05:25 pm »

I am not sure what exactly light cone is, but I am assuming it basically your photon reflection.
I don't (currently, it'll probably occur to me in a moment, and I'll kick myself) don't understand "photon reflection", but the light-cone is the (normal, without strange tricks) limit of everything that you can (or can have) interacted with, based upon 'hereandnow'.

I wrote a nice little tale (it included the phrase "you have a button-activated supernova in your pocket (or are you just pleased to see...  no, obviously not)" to explain this, but it got long and overly dramatic.

So I re-wrote it, and it got no better.  ("...so you'd need a correspondingly later 'there' to know that something had actually happened..." and "...assuming you didn't skew the stack of paper 'now's...")

I give up.  I'm leaving it to Wikipedia and the like, if you haven't already been there.
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