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[Sheb]

I don't know, I've picked it up after reading the comic, and while the plot and the engineering is fun, the characters are cardboard pieces and the writing oscillate between mediocre and horrible.

[mainiac]

The characters are pretty bad but they're not too important since 75% of the book is Whatley talking to himself.

[Sheb]

But even Whatley himself is pretty bad. I also got the feeling I was always condescended to, which ain't really agreeable.

[10ebbor10]

Since we're complaining about stuff anyway, the suit mechanics as described are not at all realistic. (Oxygen concentration matters not, it's partial pressure that matters. And spacesuits use a 100% oxygen atmosphere, at 1/3 pressure. A full pressure atmosphere means that the suit would inflate like a balloon and people would hardly be able to move in it.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, RTG's are nowhere near dangerous enough to warrant being buried 4 km from the main base. It's alpha radiation, it's stopped by a piece of paper.

Still, I enjoyed it.

[Sheb]

Yeah, the author did an overall good job for the science and engineering. The only parts that bothered me were that

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A) I have trouble imagining a storm being such a big deal with an atmosphere less than 1% as dense as ours, and B) The German dude making a bomb by pouring stuff in 0 G. Also the ascending MAV not blowing up when the entire front end is missing.

I think I did enjoy it overall, but the bad writing (seriously, your German astronaut is a chemist and an astrodynamist, has spent over two years training with the rest of the team, but cannot speak proper English!?) managed to hugely diminish the pleasure.

Overall, I think XKCD's description is good. If you think people trying to figure how to solve engineering problem would make for a good movie, go for it, otherwise this book isn't for you.

[10ebbor10]

Yeah, the German scientists merely needed a monocle and he'd be right at home in a bond film.

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The Storm is obviously nonsense, as the storm would have the approximately same effect as a stiff breeze on earth. It's a large plothole as well, since NASA's logic in sending off all the systems in advance is undermined significantly by the fact that the ascent module, the single point of failure, can be taken out by a frequent meteorological occurence.

[mainiac]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Storm is obviously nonsense, as the storm would have the approximately same effect as a stiff breeze on earth. It's a large plothole as well, since NASA's logic in sending off all the systems in advance is undermined significantly by the fact that the ascent module, the single point of failure, can be taken out by a frequent meteorological occurence.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wind strength follows a square law not a direct law.  It's not the equivalent to a 1.75 mph storm.  It's the equivalent to... something that's way above my paygrade to calculate.

And 175 mph storms aren't a frequent occurrence.  They never expected to see it.  Keep in mind that the MAV is a lightweight vehicle.

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Also the ascending MAV not blowing up when the entire front end is missing.

Thin atmosphere.  Once you are at Olympus Mons height (25 km) the pressure is down to 30 Pascals.

[Sheb]

Indeed, it wouldn't be the equivalent of a 1.75 kph, but of around 13 kph wind on Earth. That's a "Gentle breeze" according to the BEaufort scale. "Leaves and small twigs constantly moving, light flags extended." Terrifying.

The Mars atmosphere is really, really, really thin. You need wind of 60-80 kph just to raise dust. But hey, suspension of disbelief, I can accept this for the sake of the story.

Anyway, after watching the trailers, I'm actually looking forward to the movie. It seems they managed to keep a good part of the whacky, McGuyver engineering and the horrible writing won't be an issue.

Of course, this seems like the kind of movie tat Hollywood was designed to wreck, but I'm cautiously optimist.

[mainiac]

Source?

[Angle]

SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

also, ptw.

[Sheb]

Well, as you said, it follows a square law, where force is equal to K*(speed)²*(pressure), where K is a constant.

Pressure on Mars is 0.6% of that on Earth. So

(Mars Speed)²*0.006=(Earth Speed)²
Earth Speed=Mars Speed*sqrt(0.006)=Mars Speed*~0.08

You'd need winds of 600 kph to start having troubles walking against the wind (Equivalent to 50 kph on Earth).

[Putnam]

most stuff is out there and i haven't followed this thread

weird

[10ebbor10]

On a side note, the effect of the wind on a standing object is not a square relationship. It's a third order relationship. After all, the speed does not only determine the kinetic energy of the particles, but also the speed with which they move towards you (and thus the amount of them hitting an object in a certain time.)

So,

(Mars Speed)³*0.006=(Earth Speed)³
Earth Speed=Mars Speed*~0.18

Thus a speed of 31 mph kph (that's another inaccuracy. NASA uses metric. But in story, probably justifiable). Which is a Strong breeze, on the edge of a high wind. If your rocket is an umbrella or empty plastic can, you might have some trouble. Spaceship shouldn't have any trouble though.

[Sheb]

Actually, at least in my version of the book, it is 175 kph, not mph. So 31 kph, just a Fresh Breeze. Your space plastic bins are safe.

[10ebbor10]

Indeed it is. I got confused.