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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 366520 times)

Madman198237

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3225 on: November 11, 2021, 06:12:46 pm »

The full-scale version is trying to effectively replace the first stage of the rocket with a giant centrifuge---accomplish that, and you've cut out most of the rocket. Like, up to 75-80% of the rocket by volume and/or mass, depending on how the rocket is configured.

It's only for durable payloads, of course, and so is highly limited in that regard. But it is very interesting and will be very cool if it works.
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delphonso

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3226 on: November 11, 2021, 06:27:55 pm »

Yeah, any progress in cutting fuel is like a huge leap in potential distance and payloads. It might actually be beneficial to have bulky, rough launching for things like dried food and building material and then use traditional rockets to send sensitive instruments and sentient meatbags up - cutting the weight of their rockets slightly.

Telgin

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3227 on: November 12, 2021, 12:35:13 am »

I didn't see much detail on their website, but some back of the napkin math tells me that this is imparting about 2km/s at the time of launch.  That's about a quarter of the velocity needed for low earth orbit and probably not oriented properly anyway, so it's not as much as I hoped.  Still, for an early design I'm sure it helps a lot.  Just getting up into the upper atmosphere before igniting secondary engines to achieve orbit has to save a lot of fuel, not to mention the disproportionate benefit to launch mass that any fuel savings provides.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3228 on: November 15, 2021, 06:37:43 pm »

Russia conducted an anti-satellite test on an old one-tonne-or-so Kosmos ELINT satellite, not long ago. 1500 'trackable fragments', countless untrackable ones. It is/was at an altitude of 410±10 miles, in a near-polar inclination.

The ISS is at 260ish miles altitude, and yet its controllers saw fit to send the astronauts (and cosmonauts!) to the on-board shelters for a while when it became known. With orbits of 97.80 minutes and 92.68, respectively, the 'beat frequency' should mean that the specific threat as their paths cross (almost at right-angles) is rare enough, between peak encounters, but it's quite hard to know how the spreading/smearing debris field (those bits now with sufficiently lower perigee, and/or decaying that way, for as many orbits they get before the atmosphere reclaims them) will potentially interact. (This isn't just a two-body-problem!)

I wonder if the Russians fully appreciate the Gravity of the situation.

(Actually, to those concerned, demonstrable capability was probably more important than the consequences. Both interally and externally, but that's probably more <Foo>Pol thread fodder.)
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Madman198237

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3229 on: November 15, 2021, 06:55:15 pm »

Will people please stop spreading their idiotic desire to litter into space? We've got enough safety problems with space travel without riddling space with tiny bullets, thanks very much.
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LordBaal

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3230 on: November 16, 2021, 07:45:47 am »

Littering space is fine. Is our orbit the one we need clean. But in general lines, sure, we must not litter anywhere.

Although this had nothing to do with littering as much as dick measurement show, which is idiotic. Everyone knows major and former powers, or basically anyone with the capacity to send crap to orbit can in theory destroy a satellite. By this measure Musk is this close of becoming Hank Scorpio or whatever.

Very relevant
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 07:55:31 am by LordBaal »
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delphonso

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3231 on: November 16, 2021, 06:17:26 pm »

Has anyone been following the delays and speed-ups of the upcoming NASA moon mission? I haven't paid much attention to it and have just seen headlines of delays and then...not delays.

Madman198237

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3232 on: November 16, 2021, 06:54:06 pm »

First Artemis/SLS launch is some time early next year, February I think? Maybe March?

SpaceX is probably going to make it to Mars before ANY administration funds NASA enough (and lets them off the established-contractors leash) for them to actually accomplish any deep-space exploration goals.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3233 on: November 16, 2021, 07:29:47 pm »

Starship has to be ready and proven so that Artemis-3 can dock with it and use its landing capability (unless Bezos can revive his bid, which is unlikely) so SpaceX will probably be at least as well placed (disasters being avoided, that is) and probably more so, in the business of beyond-lunar man-capable flight, as any of their obvious competitors, private or national (though I wouldn't take my eyes off China pulling a Tsien out of the hat).

But back in the early '90s I predicted that the return to the Moon would be in 2019 (for various good reasons, as well as the obvious), so you could probably find a better prognosticator than me on this subject. ;)
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Bralbaard

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3234 on: November 17, 2021, 03:38:14 am »

But back in the early '90s I predicted that the return to the Moon would be in 2019 (for various good reasons, as well as the obvious), so you could probably find a better prognosticator than me on this subject. ;)

That must have been a terribly pessimistic prediction at the time. But reality has been worse, so I'd say your prognosticating skills are not too far off.  At least there is some momentum right now. If it were not for the rise of SpaceX and China, I think there would still be no realistic plans for a return at all right now.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3235 on: November 17, 2021, 09:46:43 am »

PTW.
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Duuvian

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3236 on: December 08, 2021, 07:07:13 am »

https://www.space.com/nasa-moon-nuclear-fission-reactor

The article is requesting ideas for how to build a uranium fission plant on the moon if I understand it correctly.

IIRC a number of years ago there was discussion here that a thorium breeder reactor might be the best sort of reactor to use, but I can't remember if that was on the moon or Mars. There does seem to be a large amount of Thorium on the moon, but I'm not sure if the large concentratrations are all on the dark side which is where at least one major source would be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton%E2%80%93Belkovich_Thorium_Anomaly

The spectrograph said there is about 3% iron oxide there too, so if you send a small foundry system with the reactor you could test that out too. If you could have it make spare parts it could prove the idea of a much larger automated foundry making things like construction component stockpiles like metal beams or plating or whatnot from native materials.

I found the following link, it's interesting though I don't know if it's up to date or an old page:

 https://www.permanent.com/lunar-geology-minerals.html

Average composition of Apollo and Luna samples:


« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 07:25:17 am by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3237 on: December 08, 2021, 07:23:19 am »

The reactor's heat should be used to heat the base/colony, with passive heat radiating into the walls of the base and into the surrounding regolith.

Active heat dissipation with a closed loop buried in the regolith should also be present for any excesses, or for situations where emergency shutdown is required.  Due to the pressures involved, i would suggest a working fluid other than water. Perhaps mineral oil?  The cooling loop is not part of power generation; it is there to ensure condenser efficiency. (Eg, the contents of that loop never boil, and never enter the reactor's core. It should be able to circulate at low pressures, and not have a pressure related vapor point. This is to minimize the issues of a ruptured pipe in the regolith. ( you dont want a high powered steam explosion out into space on the moon.)

Basically, you have reactor water, which heat exchanges with a mineral oil filled heat radiator network, which circulates the hot oil around the complex and is used to heat rooms.  The ams oil based coolant can be shunted into a reverse-heatpump outside the complex, which is buried in loose rock.  This is used to quickly bring down reactor temps, and to deal with "station too hot" situations.

Mineral oil wont boil if exposed to vacuum the way water does, and also wont freeze in that circumstance.

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EuchreJack

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3238 on: December 09, 2021, 04:34:22 am »

Nah, they need to put their first Industrial Fusion Power Plant on the Moon.  So, you know, it fails catastrophically there instead of here.

LordBaal

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3239 on: December 09, 2021, 05:03:12 am »

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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!
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