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[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's a bunch of nonsense driven by the political narrative of the past five years. Private enterprise does not have to "take over" space travel anymore than it has to "take over" the military.

Why anybody even thinks this is a zero sum game in the first place is beyond me. Of course, politicians do it so they can peddle their hardass cred and cut space programs even further, but why anybody else does is baffling.

[TempAcc]

Well, "take over" is prob not the best term to use in that instance, what I meant is that people be happy about private enterprise attempting to do things governments haven't touched in a good while. Has NASA made successful reusable rockets in the past year? Lol not with their current funding.

I'm all for more NASA funding, but I'm all for commercial exploration of space, too, and the moment governments start going "o hey, private enterprise, you evil creature, we want to regulate you" is the moment in which progress grinds to a halt.

Now, what is currently happening is exactly the opposite of what certain politicians sugest should happen (IE complete takeover by private companies). NASA can totally work side by side with spaceX or any other company to explore space. Hell, they kinda already are, which is a great start, since it means more investors for private companies and less of a burden on NASA to get cargo into space, so NASA can focus on more important matters such as probes and experimental projects. Maybe one day it'll be like hiring a truck to transport your fancy equipment somewhere, except it'll be NASA hiring private companies to deliver their missions to the desired locations, which is kind of already happening.

[mainiac]

SpaceX has a streamlined production with operations in three states and only three states.  Joint Launch Alliance splits the work out among more then forty states.  SpaceX can do things more efficiently.  You dont need to talk about free markets or government regulation.  The only way that government enters into it is where JLA tries to bribe congress by spreading the work out in an inefficent fashion.

[Starver]

I still kind of wish we had an international space program instead of having to rely on americans and occasionally the chinese government.

The Russians are the only man-lifters in the game. (Chinese are closer to joining them than the US is to rejoining, governmental or commercial...)

[hops]

That's a bunch of nonsense driven by the political narrative of the past five years. Private enterprise does not have to "take over" space travel anymore than it has to "take over" the military.

Why anybody even thinks this is a zero sum game in the first place is beyond me. Of course, politicians do it so they can peddle their hardass cred and cut space programs even further, but why anybody else does is baffling.

I still honestly trust profit-motivated organizations more than politically-motivated ones. And I trust politically-neutral organizations most, even if they don't tend to get shit done they don't tend to fuck up as much as dependent organizations.

[mainiac]

Lehman Brothers, Enron and Blockbuster were all profit-motivated organizations.  The British East India Company was the profit-motivated organization most similar to a government and had a downright abysmal record (started the American revolution, impoverished the Indian subcontinent, constantly dependent on government bailouts).  For profit prisons are so atrocious they make state prisons look like models of excellence and the federal government is shutting them down.  For profit education is so bad that there is now a massive class action lawsuit.  For profit medicine delivers the same result as taxpayer funded medicine but at twice the cost.  For profit banking created the Great Recession (and the great depression, and the savings and loan crisis...)

Sure I'd rather drive a car made by GM (when they aren't bankrupt) then one made by VEB (before the eastern block collapsed) but that's because I can point to a lot of ways that GM makes better cars.  They dont fall apart as quickly for starters!  At the end of the day it's a physical object you are talking about and I just care that GM makes good physical objects while VEB didn't.

Government or profit doesn't make a good rocket anymore then it makes a good doctor.  At the end of the day you look at if they are doing a good job making physical objects.  Joint Launch Enterprise is a joint operation of profit seeking companies that makes rockets badly.  Their supply chains are a shitshow, they have been slow to adopt improvements in manufacturing technology and they aren't ambitious when it comes to mission inefficiencies like reusable rockets.  SpaceX is a profit seeking company that makes rockets well.  Their supply lines aren't a shitshow, they made sure their design reflected best practices of manufacturing and they are trying to squeeze out every ounce of efficiency they can.  The conclusion I draw from that is the SpaceX is better because of the things I just listed.

[Sheb]

Wait, the HEIC started the US revolution? Is it something like "they lobbied for tea tariff to keep their profit up"?

[mainiac]

Wait, the HEIC started the US revolution? Is it something like "they lobbied for tea tariff to keep their profit up"?

Yup

[origamiscienceguy]

NASA is really good at doing research and development. Their constant need to ferry stuff up for the iss seemed to mme to be holding them back.

[Starver]

Meanwhile, China has just launched their second 'space-station'. And good luck to them.

(Sandra Bullock expected to visit soon!).

[Parsely]

"China confirms space station is falling towards Earth". Gravity confirmed.

[i2amroy]

"Not knowing when it's going to come down translates as not knowing where its going to come down."

In before crashing space station parts annihilate the white house, igniting global thermonuclear war.

[mainiac]

In before crashing space station parts annihilate the white house, igniting global thermonuclear war.

The US demonstrated the ability to shoot a deorbiting satellite a couple years back, remember?

[TempAcc]

Couldn't they send out a special mission with a rocket to lock into the main station port and prop it up enough for it to regain stable orbit? I mean, I'm not sure if that would be cost effective, but I'd guess it probably is, considering that its an entire space station being lost :U

[mainiac]

It would be more expensive then hitting it at a crash trajectory.  And if they wait until it enters a terminal trajectory they can calculate it's trajectory and probably wont need to spend any money at all.  Might as well just send up a new satellite.