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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 366590 times)

Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1380 on: November 04, 2015, 08:51:59 pm »

More bluntly-- Why is EagleWorks the ONLY research group willing to look at this?

Quote from: Wikipedia says that Eagleworks...
...is a small research group investigating a variety of fringe theories regarding novel forms of spacecraft propulsion.
(My italics.)

Also, we're at danger of conflating the Q-Thruster (Quantum Vacuum Thruster) and the EMDrive (RF Resonant Cavity Thruster).  These are both being investigated at APPL/Eagleworks, but are different things.



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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1381 on: November 04, 2015, 09:00:41 pm »

Yup-- Eagleworks already has a "Sullied" reputation, because it specializes in testing fringe propulsion theories.

It is showing findings that support EmDrive and Q-Thruster as being "hey, these actually seem to work guys!" kind of things.

The response:

We need you to publish your findings in journals that wont accept your papers because you are a fringe research group-- before we will look at your findings. Too bad you cant publish them there! You obviously cant expect us to replicate your work without reading about it first, can you? I mean, the gall-- asking us to read OTHER publications! The scandal!

(and note, Q-thruster is basically just a resonant cavity tuned to a specific RF modulation mode, that contains a dialectric element. The Q-thruster IS an Emdrive, but not all Emdrive designs are Q-thrusters.)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 09:06:58 pm by wierd »
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LordBaal

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1382 on: November 04, 2015, 09:08:11 pm »

All mirrors ans smoke I think. I do hope is rigth. As I already said, it would lay the fundations of our expansion to the stars.
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1383 on: November 04, 2015, 09:16:44 pm »

The only way to be sure, is to independently test.

But nobody is independently testing. (Because "Woooo! cold fusion!")

Thats what I am bitching about. If you think Q-thruster is Hokum, then test and publish your refutation.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1384 on: November 04, 2015, 09:17:40 pm »

The only way to be sure, is to independently test.

But nobody is independently testing. (Because "Woooo! cold fusion!")

Thats what I am bitching about. If you think Q-thruster is Hokum, then test and publish your refutation.
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Bumber

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1385 on: November 04, 2015, 09:26:16 pm »

The thrust could be due to stuff inside the device being incinerated. In which case it's no better than an ion drive.
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1386 on: November 04, 2015, 09:34:19 pm »

Now THAT is peer review!

Something specific and testable, that the experiment can be adjusted to test for and or eliminate from the results.

"It wont work because physics!" is not peer review.

We'll see if Eagleworks addresses material vaporization as a possible source of thrust.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1387 on: November 04, 2015, 10:21:21 pm »

(and note, Q-thruster is basically just a resonant cavity tuned to a specific RF modulation mode, that contains a dialectric element. The Q-thruster IS an Emdrive, but not all Emdrive designs are Q-thrusters.)
Quantum Vacuum Plasma Thrusters are different from RF Resonant Cavity Thrusters, though, with different (proposed) mechanisms behind their 'creation' of momentum.  (The first allegedly creates and ejects reaction-mass from virtual particles, thus getting around the need for a 'reaction mass' supply, the second involves unequal radiation pressures at each end of a chamber, thus getting around the need for any reaction mass.)

Unless somebody is deliberately conflating it all into one confusing mess, which it increasingly sounds like they are...

I probably should wait until someone can come up with a half-decent theory (that explains which effect they're actually trying to use), rather than inventing something just a hop-and-a-skip away from a Perpetual Motion engine (let's call it a PME of the zeroeth kind, as nobody is claiming actual inputless-perpetuity or the creation of energy from nothing, a la PMEs of the first and second kind, merely creation of momentum-change from nothing) and trying to work out what it isn't doing, out of so many possibilities, one theory at a time.  That's just too slapdash, whatever the budget and engineering difficulty behind it all...
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Putnam

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1388 on: November 04, 2015, 10:51:14 pm »

free energy

this is the most terrifying phrase in all of existence

PTTG??

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1389 on: November 05, 2015, 12:13:13 am »

free energy

this is the most terrifying phrase in all of existence

It's a big assumption on top of the big assumption that EM drives work. EM drives would have to work in a really naieve way for them to do that.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1390 on: November 07, 2015, 07:35:54 pm »

Well, thats the big hurdle, and why anyone with  doctorate is staying away from it.  The Laws of Thermodynamics are tantamount to immutable.  So while, yes anything can be replace and thrown out... the laws of thermodynamics are a special case.


Its entirely to happenstance that we've manage to apply so much of our knowledge into functional application, and build upon our knowledge so much for thermodynamics to be wrong.  It touches upon everything. And it would mean that we know nothing.

If the EM drive is working then it cannot be violating thermodynamics. It must be some nuance reactions on the boundary of the quantum and macro world, which we're currently really shitty at explaining.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1391 on: November 24, 2015, 08:02:47 am »

Private rocket news...

Might be of interest.

(The end bit about the (almost literal) dredging up of Apollo hardware was quite interesting, IMO.)
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martinuzz

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1392 on: November 24, 2015, 10:08:06 am »

A video which also shows the first stage safely landing. Very good job there. That's gonna go a long way in making space flight cheaper.

https://youtu.be/9pillaOxGCo
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Arx

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1393 on: November 24, 2015, 12:13:33 pm »

Quote from: Elon Musk on Twitter
Jeff maybe unaware SpaceX suborbital VTOL flight began 2013. Orbital water landing 2014. Orbital land landing next. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2t15vP1PyoA

#ShotsFired
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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1394 on: November 24, 2015, 12:29:24 pm »

It's getting Musky up in here.
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