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[wierd]

You are forgetting human beaurocratic corruption MSL.

[Bauglir]

When the technology is very mature, it will have to be illegal to drive without the autodrive and avoidance systems on.

Otherwise, jackholes that need to do 50mph over the speed limit and drive with their heads up their bums will cause all kinds of problems, and just be a suffciently edge case as to be relevent only as media fodder.

If the technology is mature, the machines will be the ones who are 2fast4you. Remember, computers have faster cognition than humans. They have no reason not to be going 2fast2furious all the time, not even remaining human drivers (who they can simply avoid at 130 MPH).

Fuel efficiency decreases with speed as a consequence of air resistance, and shaping our cars like bullets can only do so much. Though it might get us up to 130, I don't know the actual math here, just that there is a point beyond which it's not worth it.

[Bauglir]

This sounds both safe and wise. Cost-effective, too. LET IT BE DONE.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

When the technology is very mature, it will have to be illegal to drive without the autodrive and avoidance systems on.

Otherwise, jackholes that need to do 50mph over the speed limit and drive with their heads up their bums will cause all kinds of problems, and just be a suffciently edge case as to be relevent only as media fodder.

If the technology is mature, the machines will be the ones who are 2fast4you. Remember, computers have faster cognition than humans. They have no reason not to be going 2fast2furious all the time, not even remaining human drivers (who they can simply avoid at 130 MPH).

Fuel efficiency decreases with speed as a consequence of air resistance, and shaping our cars like bullets can only do so much. Though it might get us up to 130, I don't know the actual math here, just that there is a point beyond which it's not worth it.

Obviously there's that, yes, but it can be assumed that we'd set the standard speed rate at the most efficient point. In addition, whether public or private, there would also likely still be an option to disregard fuel efficiency and tell the car that it's too slow and needs to step it up. With private cars you're buying the fuel anyway, with public ones this would impose an additional fee.

[SalmonGod]

One point I haven't seen brought up on hacking self-driving cars...

As has been pointed out, cars can already be hacked.  There was that journalist not too long ago that many people believe was assassinated by car hacking, based on several factors in the accident.  But he was driving, so the burden of proof is placed on the accusation that he didn't cause the accident himself.

When a car is self-driving, especially when the majority of cars are self-driving, foul play will be the default assumption with any accident.  I'd think investigation would be needed just to prove otherwise.  And it would be very, very difficult for the government to deny responsibility if for some odd reason outspoken dissenters were the only people whose cars had a tendency to wrap themselves around trees.

[Bauglir]

Of course, it could just be dissenters and reporters who investigate trends in car accidents.

[Tsuchigumo550]

Ok, so we've got hackers. So how about we have the systems have minimal in-between? Compartmentalize everything so that it takes time to break shit down.

If I lived in a big city, hell yes would I try to find a way to get cars to recognize me as "ain't nothin' to fuck with" so I could go where I want...

but the myriad design of mecha legs would also allow the same thing. I want to be a fully customizable mecha, damnit.

Also, have a black-box style thing for the cars that detect every single change and do so passively, and would require being hacked into with a wired connection or an autonomous worm that works it's way through the system through a starting point.

[alway]

Of course, it could just be dissenters and reporters who investigate trends in car accidents.

On the contrary; a single Google self driving car crashes, and there would be a massive investigation. Not only by the police, but by Google, whose hundred million dollar project was put in jeopardy. Remember the Toyotas that accelerated on their own? That was a massive investigation, followed by a massive campaign by Toyota, whose brand was now heavily tarnished for several years. And that was in a case in which it wasn't even entirely clear if it was the car or the drivers. Even the tiniest crash would be investigated to hell and back; let alone a deadly one.

[Bauglir]

Unless they creep into the system at a believable rate as it expands - if we're going conspiracy here, then there's no reason to assume they'll be stupid about it. You won't have any manufactured incidents at all until the first few investigations (legitimately) turn up that there's just a failure rate, and it's much lower than human error, so there's nothing to see here, folks. I mean, I don't necessarily buy that it'd happen, but I wouldn't exactly be surprised if it did once it became possible to do without arousing suspicion.

[misko27]

Once we assume conspiracy, then all is lost.

SalmonGod, there are intelligent people in government. There have to be, by statistical odds if nothing else. I say this to justify my next statement: Any government agency that is prospectively researching assassination by car will be aware that they are investigated thoroughly by both the media and other government agencies, and would either take steps to prevent it, or call off the project all together and stick to the litany of other methods. I think no one is going to prove the government is assassinating dissidents with cars any time soon,

Also I would like to remind ourselves that we opened with "Car, it drives itself!" and so far the primary concern is unknown malevolent evil doers with internet connections. It's like a Hollywood sci-fi plot. Quick, add a love interest.

[SalmonGod]

Once we assume conspiracy, then all is lost.

SalmonGod, there are intelligent people in government. There have to be, by statistical odds if nothing else. I say this to justify my next statement: Any government agency that is prospectively researching assassination by car will be aware that they are investigated thoroughly by both the media and other government agencies, and would either take steps to prevent it, or call off the project all together and stick to the litany of other methods. I think no one is going to prove the government is assassinating dissidents with cars any time soon,

Also I would like to remind ourselves that we opened with "Car, it drives itself!" and so far the primary concern is unknown malevolent evil doers with internet connections. It's like a Hollywood sci-fi plot. Quick, add a love interest.

I should have stated it directly, but my whole point was that I wouldn't be worried at all about car hackers if/when self-driving vehicles take off.  And I'm normally one of the more cynical people on the forum.

[alway]

Oh, and by the way: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21594298-effect-todays-technology-tomorrows-jobs-will-be-immenseand-no-country-ready

One recent study by academics at Oxford University suggests that 47% of today’s jobs could be automated in the next two decades.

So there's an interesting statistic for you.

There is a coming age of mass joblessness. Not necessarily because of a lack of opportunity; there will be plenty in the high-end jobs that are left... but because a major portion of the population will be entirely disconnected from society's production, and lack the means to create anything of economic value without an education which is left out of their grasp. There's a storm brewing.

[WillowLuman]

Some say in an ideal society, menial work should be left to machines while humans pursue science, meaning, and intellectual/spiritual discovery.

In the meantime, I say the solution is to stop cutting from education. The jobs of the future will require it as machines take over the grunt work.

[Frumple]

Seal all the roads, pump air out.

VICTORY FOR THE CARS!

... didn't some kind of vacuum tube train come up in discussion at some point last year? Maybe not in this thread, but... somewhere on GD.

[Max White]

Some say in an ideal society, menial work should be left to machines while humans pursue science, meaning, and intellectual/spiritual discovery.

I disagree. While I think more people will be able to move into science and engineering, I also think that more and more people will be able to move into the arts. It is already evident that we have more people involved in creating art in one form or another than ever before, this can only continue, and to great benefit to mankind. No longer will the only music you hear be the Emperors favorite pianist, now the economy can support a much wider range of tastes.

I think one day we will reach a point where we can afford two types of people, those who choose to devote their life to creating something, be it scientific knowledge or entertainment, and those that get to enjoy their lives consuming it.