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[Descan]

No, but we're talking hypothetical here. Would you, or would you not, consider yourself the same person after going through such a process*?

Seen externally, yes. From my own point of view, no.

*Assuming "such a process" means instant-switch brain upload or star-trek style transporter.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What about quantum teleportation? You are entangled with a Descan-shaped and sized analogue (forget about the technical limitations of this), and then, at a later point the Universe yells "SWITCH PLACES!" and you do.

[Sheb]

So you'd consider yourself someone else, despite being identical in ever single aspect save position, having all your personality traits and memories?

I officially name your school of though the "Ten-Thousand Kirk" school of philosophy.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

If someone made a perfect copy of me, without bothering to remove the memories of doing so from the "clone", the end result would be two people attempting to cause violence towards him, not one. And anyway, why should I get angry at a different person just for being completely similar to me? After all, the duplicate will start developing it's own unique memories, meaning that it's not the same person as I am almost immediately. From my point of view, having a duplicate would be very useful; someone willing to help you with a similar point of view always is.

[LordSlowpoke]

if you cloned someone who hated themselves, would they hate the clone also?

[Descan]

So you'd consider yourself someone else, despite being identical in ever single aspect save position, having all your personality traits and memories?

I officially name your school of though the "Ten-Thousand Kirk" school of philosophy.

Well if I was dead, in the "taken apart and re-constituted in another location" kind of transporter, then my pov doesn't matter for anyone but me. To everyone else, I would be the same person and they'd be able to interact with the transport-clone as much as they would with me. In that sense, if I knew what the transporter was, I wouldn't go into it.

But if I wasn't dead, in the "We scan your body and make a new one in the new location, and your body doesn't need to be destroyed" sense, then I would be the original and the new copy would be an identical-but-seperate person. I wouldn't suddenly start seeing things through their eyes or having twice the brain-power.

In either case, from my point of view, I am still ME and the copy is someone else, either because I still exist or because I am dead.

From the copys point of view, it would be happy to be alive and would probably not care that it was a copy. How it would see itself and whether it would consider the me-before-transport to be to it's own perspective, I don't know. I would have to get into that situation to be sure.

All I'm mainly saying is that, the me-before-copying would not instigate the copy/transport/upload, because I would view it as a form of death of my "I", and would rather just walk or do a slow-transition. After-the-fact, I would not care, because I'd either be alive and have a clone, I'd be dead, or I'd be a copy. But I, as in right now, would not want to do it.

What about quantum teleportation? You are entangled with a Descan-shaped and sized analogue (forget about the technical limitations of this), and then, at a later point the Universe yells "SWITCH PLACES!" and you do.

AFAIK quantum teleportation isn't a thing, and entanglement is more information-transfer. So it wouldn't be so much as "SWITCH PLACES" as it is "JIGGLE IN THE SAME FORMATION DESPITE THAT BEING VERY VERY UNLIKELY!"

Plus I'm pretty sure it's physically impossible for a particle that's part of a larger system (I.E. one of my atoms) to be entangled. You need to seperate and isolate them a LOT, like "in a near-perfect vacuum without any energy emissions touching it" isolated.

[Tack]

I feel that if I were in a freak cloning accident or some such, and happened to have a perfect clone whom neither of us knew was which, it would be an incredibly tense moment for me.
I honestly can't say that I wouldn't kill myself if there was any threat to my identity and/or the "Kill him before he kills you" debate.

But it's a lot more hopeful that we'd sit down and have an incredibly long talk about exactly how we're supposed to live from now on.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

AFAIK quantum teleportation isn't a thing, and entanglement is more information-transfer. So it wouldn't be so much as "SWITCH PLACES" as it is "JIGGLE IN THE SAME FORMATION DESPITE THAT BEING VERY VERY UNLIKELY!"

You are the weakest link, goodbye. Anyway, it's technically both information transfer and teleportation, because fuck, quantum physics are the most screwed up things. It is literally on the verge of being magic. People sometimes wonder: "What would things be like if the laws of physics were different?" That's a stupid question, because we already know. Quantum physics are that. It's alien and screwed-up and reality makes no god damn sense.

Plus I'm pretty sure it's physically impossible for a particle that's part of a larger system (I.E. one of my atoms) to be entangled. You need to seperate and isolate them a LOT, like "in a near-perfect vacuum without any energy emissions touching it" isolated.

WHAT PART OF "FORGET ABOUT THE TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS OF THIS" DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!

Anyway, if I had a perfect copy, it'd be great once we figured out who was MSH-Alpha and who was MSH-Beta. (Answer: I am MSH-Alpha.) Double actions? Yes, I think so.

[AlleeCat]

This sounds sort of like that question I hear a lot: "If you slowly replaced parts of your brain with the same parts of someone else's brain, when is it not your brain anymore?"

[Sheb]

Depend how you define the self. For example, let's take the case of Phineas Gage. Basically, he lost part of his brain, and after the accident had a complete change of personality. To me he was simply not the same man afterward.

[Descan]

Depending on how slowly and how your brain interacts with theirs, as well as how our brains work and which parts. Since I'm pretty sure you would form new memories and connections during a "slow" transition, including connections across from the old brain to the new parts, the END result would be neither person but a new one, weighted towards the "someone else's" brain since they're the one that's being used as the end-result substrate.

Not to mention that the connections from the brain to the new part would be inexact so who knows how that would come out, and if identity is centered in one part of the brain or mostly in one part, then that would mean that as soon as that part has been switched out, the identity has been switched out.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Keep in mind that your brain has multiple layers of redundancy. Technically speaking, you can lose more than half of it and still be a functioning human being. That exact scenario is unlikely as to be impossible, but it's not actually impossible.

[Sheb]

Well, have you ever heard of hemispherectomy?

[Dwarf4Explosives]

AFAIK quantum teleportation isn't a thing, and entanglement is more information-transfer. So it wouldn't be so much as "SWITCH PLACES" as it is "JIGGLE IN THE SAME FORMATION DESPITE THAT BEING VERY VERY UNLIKELY!"

You are the weakest link, goodbye. Anyway, it's technically both information transfer and teleportation, because fuck, quantum physics are the most screwed up things. It is literally on the verge of being magic. People sometimes wonder: "What would things be like if the laws of physics were different?" That's a stupid question, because we already know. Quantum physics are that. It's alien and screwed-up and reality makes no god damn sense.

Isn't one way to interpret quantum physics that distance-separated completely entangled particles are at the same place¹, but just interact with two different surroundings at once?


1: Or are the same particle at two spaces at once.

[10ebbor10]

Well, supposedly it's a valid theory that there is only a single electron in the entire universe, and that it's everywhere at once.