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[nenjin]

I will say I'm a lot harder to reel in through Kickstarter now than I used to be. I don't mention projects that merely hit the right aesthetic notes or are dry-humping genre features. Because there are plenty of those out there right now.

But yeah. It seems at least 40% of what I see today isn't what's released, but what will be released.

[Singularity125]

I think most "gamers" have evolved into collectors and conquerors. It's more about the anticipation of games and wanting to see if they live up to the hype. For others, it's about blowing through the game as quickly as possible and then explaining to everyone else how flawed it is, usually in a condescending tone.

I think it's kind of interesting if you take a step back and compare it to the consumption of other kinds of media. When I was a kid MP3s weren't around yet so you listened to what you had which often led to the appreciation of songs that you didn't initially like. It's pretty common to see people these days listening to thirty seconds of an mp3 and then skipping through half a dozen more before listening to another one.

Easy access to such a vast assortment of games for low prices has changed the way I play games. The other day I was playing Mirror's Edge and couldn't help but wonder how many chapters were left so I could put it on my "completed" list and move on to a new experience. It's not always like that but with all of the quality games out there it's hard for a game to hold my attention for as long as one would have 10 years ago.  Nowadays If I play 10 games I might finish 3 of them, and out of those I might actually take the time to thoroughly enjoy 1 of them.

I've thought about not buying games until I go through what I have and finish them. But then there is always that exciting new game on the horizon, or that deep discount for a game that looks like it might be decent...

My name is Wiles and I am an addict.

Man, I have the same problem. Even dumping it all into Backloggery doesn't do much but make me feel guilty. Steam sales are the worst for my wallet and conscience, but new games grab my attention too. Hell, there's one I pre-ordered that's coming out tomorrow (Guided Fate Paradox). Just this past month I've been jugging Rune Factory 4, Pokemon Y, and Saint's Row 3. Disgaea D2 ended up getting left in the dust. And next month it will be the same story with different games. I'm definitely a "collector". 

[GlyphGryph]

You know, looking at the conversation threads, I'm just not seeing it - Sure, there's lots of discussion about games that are still in development, but a lot of those are actively being played despite that - continuous development and open alphas is a big thing in a lot of modern indie games (DF, CDDA, KSP), and people are actually for real playing those, not just speculating. There's plenty of speculation too, but a good chunk of that is about sequels in threads about games that already were released and discussed to death in the months that followed.

There's also a lot of discussion of classic games that were released a long time ago, giving people a chance to discover them anew.

So let's look at the front page:
Planetside 2: Released
Cataclysm: Playable, Continuos Development
Space Station 13: Released, Continuos Development
THANCS: Released
Jagged Alliance 2: Released
Europa Universalis IV: Released
The Sims 2: Released
Pokemans (Mostly black and white discussions at the moment): Released
Miriani: Playable, Continuos Development
Lugdunon: Playable Alpha

Of the first ten threads, not counting this one, two are arguable Alphas, and both are people having discussions about a game they are actively playing - A quick glance shows that this trend seems to continue well into the forum history.

So what, exactly, is the issue? Is the OP simply not interested in playing any of the games people are discussing playing? Is he opposed to opening conversations about a game he IS playing? I'm honestly not sure, but

Now, it seems that most of the conversation is taken by games not yet out.

doesn't feel like an accurate statement in the slightest.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

-Probably going to make a comment here later, can't now because I am out of time to post at the current time-

[Anvilfolk]

Yeah... there are definitely a lot of decent games around for really cheap, and a lot of really crappy games for even cheaper. I think it's getting to the point where player time is getting to be more valuable than a gamer's money...

I guess it might ultimately come down to why you play games. I feel that the most common reason ends up being to pass some time when you don't feel like doing something else. In that situation there isn't really much to differentiate the insane amount of games with decent gameplay (whatever genre you're into) that are around, so you can keep buying new ones and keep from getting bored by the same mechanics.

My solution is/was/tries-to-be playing games for a specific reason that I don't feel embarrassed about: I play realistic WW2 games because of the inherent social and human context, and because I love getting immersed in the detailed technical aspects of it. I'll play online games with VOIP because I love teamwork and cooperation with other people, and the feeling of coming together into a well oiled machine to overcome some difficult obstacle. One example of this is organised ArmA 2/3 groups that regularly get 50+ people, with a detailed chain of command, and it's a blast seeing how things run smoothly or fail miserably under certain chains of command.

After I started doing the above consciously, I pretty much stopped buying as many games as I did. I avoid entirely single-player experiences because it feels like time I could've spent doing something productive, focus on games where the MP component requires teamwork, or on games that portray something I am passionate about (again, in my case, WW2).

Matrix Games also has an interesting approach (they have a detailed forum post about it somewhere), where they price their games according to how hard it is for you to get into it and enjoy it fully. That explains why they didn't get on the sale bandwagon. If you're going to try playing something like War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition or Distant Worlds, you're going to need to invest a whole lot of time into really understanding the game. If you don't, it'll feel like a crappy game. If you do, it rewards you amazingly (if it's your kind of thing).


I've also stopped backing projects because they seem cool. It's become pretty clear that a game is only going to achieve it's potential if it's got a good, experienced dev team behind it. If it doesn't I'm not going to bother supporting it. It might work out, but chances are it won't. I don't think we should support unfounded, unplanned dream-visions. I will still try to actively support indie devs that have shown they can walk the walk, even when I'm not into the genre.



The threads with lots of posts here are the ones from games that do have lasting appeal, typically because of the MP component or the amazing technical aspects. Again, KSP is one of those, but so is SS13. Bay12 isn't too into simulators, but those threads come and go and have interesting chats.


-- Ninja'd --

Glyph makes a very good point. I guess we've turned this topic into just complaining about not really enjoying a game as much as we used to? Which, I think, is mostly the case, even though certain games are exceptions.

[nenjin]

There's such a thing as gamer's ennui. Where you're literally so saturated with media and entertainment that it takes something amazing to rise above the noise. And Something Amazing^TM only happens once every few years in each genre. And so in the trough, Everything Sucks^TM.

I'm with Glyph in that I don't really see it either. Then again, I'm one of the ones that generates a ton of threads about new games, so maybe I'm biased. I do it mostly to introduce people to something they might like, whether it's out now or later, and as a baited trap for game devs to come here and spill da beans. And as I said, I also do it to remind myself, since I don't have anywhere near the brainspace for the catalog of stuff out there I might play. Lots of times I start threads on games I eventually don't end up purchasing based on what you people say about it. (Reus, that other Arcen God Game both come to mind.)

But let's take a look at some of the discussions that are still going (that aren't KSP.) Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is constantly being talked about because a) it's always being patched and b) it's a game with enough content that you can talk about it, debate strategies and share meaningful experiences. Crusader Kings 2? Basically the same story. Path of Exile? A game with a huge diverse skill tree and customizable skills invite discussion. Terraria, mostly because it's places for people to assert what they know to be mechanically true, talk about servers and getting games going, ect....

And then there's SS13 threads, or other MMO Bay12 co-op games, which are less discussion and more a blend of IRC and place to vent.

And that leaves....most other games. Hotline Miami, a game you experience and then you're done with it. You say your bit online, hash out a few conspiracy theories and then....you're done. Binding of Isaac, which you post in to say "I DUD ITZ!" Or Magicka, a game where you kinda blow your load in the first couple weeks and then....there's very little to discuss.

So yeah...in the absence of game discussion about things I'm interested in, I'm going to post about something new that isn't out yet (because I dislike posting "Hey remember that game?!" threads.)

Bay12 isn't too into simulators.....

I'm....going to strenuously disagree with you there.

[Sirian]

In the first 2 pages right now i can see : Maia, Sublight, Star Citizen, Rimworld, Shepherd, Starbound, STASIS, that are just projects right now. There are many more alphas/betas though.

Maybe it's not so much that the first pages are flooded by kickstarters and such, but it's true that they make up a large portion of the new, seemingly interesting threads. Most of them end up sinking quickly because there is not much to talk about when a game isn't playable... which is why we don't see more of them in the first pages.

It's not so much that these posts shouldn't be in this forum, but as I've said before, they have become so common that I feel like they deserve their own child board, like "Play With Your Buddies".

[EuchreJack]

You know, looking at the conversation threads, I'm just not seeing it
 [...]
So let's look at the front page:
[...]
The Sims 2: Released

I only started that thread because I glanced at this one.  So go me!   

[Aoi]

In the first 2 pages right now i can see : Maia, Sublight, Star Citizen, Rimworld, Shepherd, Starbound, STASIS, that are just projects right now. There are many more alphas/betas though.

And out of the first 2 pages/40 threads, I see... 7 threads that are not about any game in particular. On par with the number of threads about games that are still projects, by the above count... =P

[Geneoce]

It's not so much that these posts shouldn't be in this forum, but as I've said before, they have become so common that I feel like they deserve their own child board, like "Play With Your Buddies".

Pay-to-alpha, early releases and kickstarter projects having a child board would make my browsing that little bit simpler. 

[Tilla]

In the first 2 pages right now i can see : Maia, Sublight, Star Citizen, Rimworld, Shepherd, Starbound, STASIS, that are just projects right now. There are many more alphas/betas though.

Maybe it's not so much that the first pages are flooded by kickstarters and such, but it's true that they make up a large portion of the new, seemingly interesting threads. Most of them end up sinking quickly because there is not much to talk about when a game isn't playable... which is why we don't see more of them in the first pages.

It's not so much that these posts shouldn't be in this forum, but as I've said before, they have become so common that I feel like they deserve their own child board, like "Play With Your Buddies".

Of those, at least Maia and RimWorld are playable right now so it doesn't fit the topic of this thread really at all. Star Citizen is supposed to get the multiplayer dogfighting next month too.

When talking about new subforums I think you need to keep in mind: this forum is for Bay12Games and creating new subforums takes away development time from Zach and Tarn to moderate and dilutes discussion. I don't think this forum is quite active enough to require another subforum just for early access type games - heck, something awful doesn't even do that and there are more posters on there at any given time than have /ever/ been on this forum.

[alexandertnt]

It's not so much that these posts shouldn't be in this forum, but as I've said before, they have become so common that I feel like they deserve their own child board, like "Play With Your Buddies".

Pay-to-alpha, early releases and kickstarter projects having a child board would make my browsing that little bit simpler. 

But there are good pay-to-alpha's and early releases. Ones that are genuinely fun to play as video games right now, and that might very well interest people just looking for a game.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Besides the individual game threads with their own fragmented little communities, the group of Bay12ers and dwarf fortress players that actually regularly play games together are already here:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/dwarfortress

in the steam chat and teamspeak at kaelserver.dyndns.org password: dwarf.

[miauw62]

I wouldn't call it "fragmented little communities", at least not for most of the games. Altough it is true for a few games (like SS13)

[Neonivek]

Odd, I still talk about playing games.

Heck my favorite RPG is Suikeoden 2, which I consider to have the best geopolitical plotline of any RPG.

If you didn't need a Suikeoden 1 save to get the best ending (ERRR!) I'd consider it perfect!