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Author Topic: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread  (Read 12670 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #210 on: November 17, 2013, 08:02:34 am »

But you can build on knowledge that you have access to but not fully understand and same techs from different nations are quite incompatible. Different societies, different magic practices, different traditions.
My livestock and one of Oedogi are very different livestock techs

And no, you can't fully understand something without research and investment. It's not like USA can give tech to some Nigeria and it will start making F-35s or Abrams... Neither Nigeria will be able to  produce other fighter jets or modern tanks any time soon
Yes if Nigeria will spend a lot of resources and help from USA they will be able to do some second class fighters\tanks but they need resources (invention points) and that will not cost much less as if they started from scratch

You got some knowledge from a neighbor? Fine. Now spend Invention points and make an invention to adapt it to your own society
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Terenos

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #211 on: November 17, 2013, 08:25:00 am »

Right, My point is that any innovation of a level 0 tech will boost it to level 1. So overall, tech trading gets them more tech unlocks than us.

I had to pay 1 unlock for say, Agriculture 1. I trade it away, they get agriculture 0. They innovate, they get Agriculture 1(Assuming current understanding of the innovation/science system is correct). and that innovation. Leaving them 1 up over me, for the cost.

Your sidebar idea, lasts how long before that tech is fully understood, or considered native? 1 unlock? 2? Then it moves to the native list remaining at level 0? Potentially. But I would argue it still allows nations that trade tech to get further ahead.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #212 on: November 17, 2013, 08:38:42 am »

Quote
I had to pay 1 unlock for say, Agriculture 1. I trade it away, they get agriculture 0. They innovate, they get Agriculture 1(Assuming current understanding of the innovation/science system is correct). and that innovation. Leaving them 1 up over me, for the cost.
In fact they have agriculture equal to yours, no?   And innovation didn't come for them for free, they spent research to adapt the tech
Oh, and don't you get something from giving your knowledge away? That's what tech trading means

Quote
Your sidebar idea, lasts how long before that tech is fully understood, or considered native?
When your researched level is higher than what you bought, obiviously

If you get LVL 2 of tech A, you just don't need LVL1 tech A that can be used only for inventions, instead you may use your own. You don't need knowledge how to adapt rice planting techniques to wheat, when your wheat techniques are already as good as their rice techniques

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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Terenos

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #213 on: November 17, 2013, 08:59:43 am »

Potentially yes, but not necessarily. Theres more ways to get tech than simply trading after all. Or trading fairly. Certainly at a 1:1 trade ratio we may have equivalent tech. And what happens down the road when perhaps a level 3 or 4 tech is traded? 1 lower than the trader's tech will still be a huge boost.

But then we're in the realm of having to trade tech to remain competitive.  Theres no reason not to trade tech right now, and every reason for it. There should be some downside.

So. Level 1 then? Since if bought at 0, and we can use that for innovations, and if 0 + 1 innovation = level 1 tech, the sidebar barely exists. Seems like added bookkeeping for no real purpose. Since the moment you use it in an innovation succesfully its native.

Anywho I meant to do this.
1) People will bitch, you can't outright forbid tech trading without a good reason.
2) Dependency on a dice roll will just lead to people spamming trade actions until they stick.
3) Is potentially viable, they are gaining tech. As it stands it is without cost. On the plus side, implementing either 3 or 4, will lead to people developing their tech along their own paths, leading to a more unique layout of civs.
To me this is the most viable option.
4) Is also viable. Since we all have contact with each other, and clearly speak the same language. Emigration would likely occur among people with knowledge.
5) Potentially some kind of technological breakthrough we must reach before we can even start trading knowledge? A whole 'Writing' type tech. Though that may not fit with the current tech system.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #214 on: November 17, 2013, 09:02:52 am »

((Actually, I've been thinking more along the lines of 1 lower of the traders level, or zero, whichever is lower. For the current system, that is.))
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #215 on: November 17, 2013, 09:22:13 am »

Quote
So. Level 1 then? Since if bought at 0, and we can use that for innovations, and if 0 + 1 innovation = level 1 tech, the sidebar barely exists. Seems like added bookkeeping for no real purpose. Since the moment you use it in an innovation succesfully its native.
That if
a) tech starts at level 1, if it starts from 0, you get your own native tech level 0 from one innovation
b) You are lucky enough to get +1 to exactly that tech


But above is a mild version, I prefer either  or 1 or 3 + pay half of the cost innovation point wise, else tech trading is too good for things you already plan to get while "would be nice to have " techs become bad idea

« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 02:38:27 pm by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

evilcherry

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #216 on: November 17, 2013, 09:56:35 am »

I prefer to have the fight done before all these banter.

I can accept either way.

Terenos

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #217 on: November 17, 2013, 10:05:18 am »

Get out of my forests! Out!
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But despite what you've been told, I once had a soul. Left somewhere behind...

10ebbor10

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #218 on: November 17, 2013, 03:41:06 pm »

Ok, this is what happens if you fail initiative, run into an enemy trap, and are using glass cannon cavalry.
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tryrar

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #219 on: November 17, 2013, 03:44:40 pm »

....ouch
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This fort really does sit on the event horizon of madness and catastrophe
No. I suppose there are similarities, but I'm fairly certain angry birds doesn't let me charge into a battalion of knights with a car made of circular saws.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #220 on: November 17, 2013, 03:52:33 pm »

And I thought my raid was a failure....
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

10ebbor10

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #221 on: November 17, 2013, 03:54:21 pm »

To be fair, I'm pretty sure you could not have rolled worse. (Well, you could, but it wouldn't be that much worse).
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #222 on: November 17, 2013, 04:14:31 pm »

Do you mean that crucial turn were my boarders were set on fire or the whole battle?


BTW, had you made any decision regarding tech trading? I do like #3 and think it's good solution, but if it will be applied in this turn, my tech trade is just awful for my development and I'd like to have a chance to reconsider
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

10ebbor10

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #223 on: November 17, 2013, 04:21:05 pm »

Talking about this battle, not the other one.

I don't quite like 3 actually, because it could severly hamper some people. I think I might make a significant change in the research system instead, separating gaining ideas from gaining inventions, for example.
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evilcherry

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Re: Nations of Dolusil 2 (6/6) OOC thread
« Reply #224 on: November 17, 2013, 06:57:03 pm »

Ouch.

Retreat! Retreat!
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