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[tryrar]

Just to be crystal clear(so I don't have to remake my sheet), you did accept my reasoning on the metamagic feats, correct? (If not, no worries, I have a backup plan...)

[Remuthra]

I can optimize if I have a guidebook...i tend to be a simulationist, so I like having stuff for every contingency, too. I also get annoyed with how EXP works. You learn from failure, not success(or at least more than success). And how a level 10 cleric who's never gardened a day in his life will be a better farmer(without using magic, mind you) than someone who actually does that for a living. >.>

How do you know that the farmer isn't a level 20 Agriculturist?

I'm saying that the way the game mechanics work, the commoner who lives where he can try various things to improve his crops and find better ways to grow food and improve his own life because he has security, is actually going to be a worse farmer than the farmer who's class is actually soldier because he spends half his time beating the shit out of goblins coming to steal his corn. I think that's stupid.

It doesn't matter if he took profession (farmer) or not; his wisdom score is almost certainly high enough that he intuitively knows how to farm better than the average joe who's life is farming. And then he could have taken profession (farmer)

Anyway. I'm thinking of being a Scout, a Crusader, trying out one of the other ToB classes to see how the changes are, maybe a Ninja(I think they get Water Walk. :3), or I can be our resident mage-killer. Simply because I think it'd be fun to do. If i do, I would like to discuss the possibility of a custom prestige class with Remuthra(it says so! It suggests custom prestige classes in the book!). Maybe not one I could get yet, but still. And maybe some new enchantments. Anti-magic based ones. On the one hand, no buffs for me. On the other hand, no Phantom Killer. Or Fireball.

Commence negotiations, by all means.

[Rolepgeek]

Well, first I need to choose my initial class at all, and it's almost certainly not going to be spell-thief. What do you guys think we need?

Also, I'd need to know more about the basics of the lore and setting and mythology. Whichever god hates magic, for example. It'd probably be a Templar of [Insert God Here]. Maybe one of those classes that adjusts your base class, turning Smite Evil into Smite Mage(divine magic obviously isn't the same as arcane magic, because He does it. Duhhhh :3 :p).

Basically, it'd be a ten-level prestige class that eventually allows you to be the hard counter to anything that relies on magic or spell-like abilities. Some stuff against supernatural, but not a great deal, and rogues who get the drop on you will screw you over(you don't get magic either; so while their Cloak of Invisibility won't qork, they're still a level 13 Rogue, and you still have 0 ranks in Spot/Listen, in addition to not having Fortified armor.).

That said, they'd still get some magic stuff, it'd just be pretty unique and shit. Balancing at that point, I suppose. Don't know what the capstone would be. Maybe an at-will Antimagic Field or Mordenkainen's Dysjunction. I'm thinking it'd be one of the 'high-tier' prestige classes, where you start at level nine or so. Required feats and such wouldn't be too hard to figure out. Mage-slayer, for one, knowledge (arcana) maybe. A concept right now, more than anything else.

[GreatWyrmGold]

My optimization problems with Drak had nothing to do with the fact that he was a kobold. They had to do with the fact that an octopus with an understanding of D&D rules could optimize better than me.

And it wasn't the optimization that was his problem though

Then why did you bring it up in the middle of a conversation about optimization?

Well, first I need to choose my initial class at all, and it's almost certainly not going to be spell-thief. What do you guys think we need?

*shrugs*

[Remuthra]

Well, first I need to choose my initial class at all, and it's almost certainly not going to be spell-thief. What do you guys think we need?

Also, I'd need to know more about the basics of the lore and setting and mythology. Whichever god hates magic, for example. It'd probably be a Templar of [Insert God Here]. Maybe one of those classes that adjusts your base class, turning Smite Evil into Smite Mage(divine magic obviously isn't the same as arcane magic, because He does it. Duhhhh :3 :p).

Basically, it'd be a ten-level prestige class that eventually allows you to be the hard counter to anything that relies on magic or spell-like abilities. Some stuff against supernatural, but not a great deal, and rogues who get the drop on you will screw you over(you don't get magic either; so while their Cloak of Invisibility won't qork, they're still a level 13 Rogue, and you still have 0 ranks in Spot/Listen, in addition to not having Fortified armor.).

That said, they'd still get some magic stuff, it'd just be pretty unique and shit. Balancing at that point, I suppose. Don't know what the capstone would be. Maybe an at-will Antimagic Field or Mordenkainen's Dysjunction. I'm thinking it'd be one of the 'high-tier' prestige classes, where you start at level nine or so. Required feats and such wouldn't be too hard to figure out. Mage-slayer, for one, knowledge (arcana) maybe. A concept right now, more than anything else.

Well, if you want an anti-magic god I'd suggest making one up. As for Mordekainen's Disjunction, that may not be such a good idea :p.

[Harbingerjm]

It doesn't matter if he took profession (farmer) or not; his wisdom score is almost certainly high enough that he intuitively knows how to farm better than the average joe who's life is farming. And then he could have taken profession (farmer)

Profession doesn't allow an untrained check, so yes, it very much does matter. And fluff-wise, if you have skill ranks in something it generally means you have put time and effort into learning it.

Then you can have the same Water Breathing the Bronze Dragon normally has.

Eh, I'm not going to bother with half-dragon.
One dice step of claw damage (that I won't be able to use with weapons), a 1d6 bite natural attack, +3 natural armour, water breathing, a once-a-day breath weapon that doesn't scale, +6 STR and +2 int are just not worth the +2 level adjustment and loss of the +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks and Spot checks from taking Half-Dragon instead of Draconic instead.

[Remuthra]

It doesn't matter if he took profession (farmer) or not; his wisdom score is almost certainly high enough that he intuitively knows how to farm better than the average joe who's life is farming. And then he could have taken profession (farmer)

Profession doesn't allow an untrained check, so yes, it very much does matter. And fluff-wise, if you have skill ranks in something it generally means you have put time and effort into learning it.

Then you can have the same Water Breathing the Bronze Dragon normally has.

Eh, I'm not going to bother with half-dragon.
One dice step of claw damage (that I won't be able to use with weapons), a 1d6 bite natural attack, +3 natural armour, water breathing, a once-a-day breath weapon that doesn't scale, +6 STR and +2 int are just not worth the +2 level adjustment and loss of the +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks and Spot checks from taking Half-Dragon instead of Draconic instead.

Twas a +3 LA, actually.

[Rolepgeek]

Actually, I just had an amazing idea. Sort of. Dragonborn penalty to dex doesn't help.

Dragonborn of the Mind Raptoran Scout. Footbow full attack action while gliding. Skirmish, bitches.
Hell, I could be a Dragonborn (possibly raptoran) Ranger(and possibly even multiclass as paladin thanks to how dragonborn works), with favored enemy Dragons. Maybe a flying mount and become a Cavalier. A flying one.

Either way, 'twould be amazing. Sadly, the dex penalty really hurts. Ah well.

Isn't Mordenkainen's Dysjunction just an uber-Dispel Magic?

Alright harbringer, how about how it's easier for a tenth level wizard to make a masterwork chain shirt than it would be for the smith who's been doing it his whole life but is still stuck at level 1? Craft allows untrained, after all.

I think I added a mechanic one time I DMed where you have a chance to get EXP every time you fail a skill check. And I think when you fucked up a hit, got hit(to a degree), or bumbled a spell, with what I do with spells to try and balance them(every time you cast, make a Spellcraft check, with the casting stat of choice being used instead of Intelligence. DC is equal to 10+spell level*3. If you fail, spell is not cast, but nothing bad happens. Fail by five or more, that spell slot is used up. Fail by ten or more, spell backfires, and I would roll on a random table for the manner in which it does so. Certain spells have higher DCs, rituals and such give you bonuses.), you got a chance too. I think it was an Intelligence check against DC 5+however much you failed by, and you got more experience points based on how badly you screwed up. A critical failure never gives EXP though.

Of course, I could play a Water Orc. :3

[Remuthra]

Actually, I just had an amazing idea. Sort of. Dragonborn penalty to dex doesn't help.

Dragonborn of the Mind Raptoran Scout. Footbow full attack action while gliding. Skirmish, bitches.
Hell, I could be a Dragonborn (possibly raptoran) Ranger(and possibly even multiclass as paladin thanks to how dragonborn works), with favored enemy Dragons. Maybe a flying mount and become a Cavalier. A flying one.

Either way, 'twould be amazing. Sadly, the dex penalty really hurts. Ah well.

Isn't Mordenkainen's Dysjunction just an uber-Dispel Magic?

Alright harbringer, how about how it's easier for a tenth level wizard to make a masterwork chain shirt than it would be for the smith who's been doing it his whole life but is still stuck at level 1? Craft allows untrained, after all.

I think I added a mechanic one time I DMed where you have a chance to get EXP every time you fail a skill check. And I think when you fucked up a hit, got hit(to a degree), or bumbled a spell, with what I do with spells to try and balance them(every time you cast, make a Spellcraft check, with the casting stat of choice being used instead of Intelligence. DC is equal to 10+spell level*3. If you fail, spell is not cast, but nothing bad happens. Fail by five or more, that spell slot is used up. Fail by ten or more, spell backfires, and I would roll on a random table for the manner in which it does so. Certain spells have higher DCs, rituals and such give you bonuses.), you got a chance too. I think it was an Intelligence check against DC 5+however much you failed by, and you got more experience points based on how badly you screwed up. A critical failure never gives EXP though.

Of course, I could play a Water Orc. :3

The problem is that I think Mordekainen's murders magic items.

[Taricus]

Yep, which is pretty much a dick move to whomever wanted to take that item after killing the current user.

How much would it cost to get a portable forge though Remuthra? Can't ply my skill as a weapon/armoursmith/bowyer without one.

[Remuthra]

Yep, which is pretty much a dick move to whomever wanted to take that item after killing the current user.

How much would it cost to get a portable forge though Remuthra? Can't ply my skill as a weapon/armoursmith/bowyer without one.

39000 gp.

[Taricus]

That much :O

I didn't think an anvil and furnace costed THAT much.

[Remuthra]

That much :O

I didn't think an anvil and furnace costed THAT much.

It's a magical forge that you can shrink and fit into your pocket, which contains masterwork tools and a full set of equipment for smithing. What did you expect?

[Taricus]

That's going a little overboard for what I expected though. I can carry the damn things when they're full-sized though. Either way, my sheet should be coming along nicely, though I'll send it to you to clear it before going anywhere else with it.

[Rolepgeek]

Portable forge could simply mean it's on a wagon.

Ah, yeah, that could be a problem. Anti-magic field would probably be better.

So what's the general setting like, Remuthra? High magic, low magic, high dickish trapmakers, low dickish trapmakers? How commonly will we be on land?