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[LeoLeonardoIII]

Seems like it could be legit to do it that way, kind of "I could Swim(2) all along but didn't need to use it until now". As long as people couldn't sell back their skills to exchange for other ones, it would be fine.

Although many of the mini-games in D&D (spell memorization, equipment selection and encumbrance, marching order) are tests of planning ahead, which is best served by choosing character skills at level-up or at least between sessions. Unless you don't like those kinds of challenges, and you typically prefer to play spontaneous casters, ignore encumbrance, and place your figures when the combat starts.

[mastahcheese]

Seems like it could be legit to do it that way, kind of "I could Swim(2) all along but didn't need to use it until now". As long as people couldn't sell back their skills to exchange for other ones, it would be fine.

Yeah, you couldn't sell stuff back, and that "retroactive" argument was generally accepted.

And for the record, I actually do tend to play as Sorcerers over Wizards, I find it less tedious. (Unless I could play as a Warlock, because forget spells per day entirely.)
In that home system, Mages actually used XP as the fuel for their spells, and any XP they spent in spell costs would go toward their next level in Mage. I liked it.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

That's kind of cool. Although it could result in a Mage not having any more XP and too many levels in Mage ... was that ever a problem? Or did most people end up throwing an extra bundle of XP down to gain the level?

[mastahcheese]

That's kind of cool. Although it could result in a Mage not having any more XP and too many levels in Mage ... was that ever a problem? Or did most people end up throwing an extra bundle of XP down to gain the level?

Oh, that happened all the time.
Some mages would actually wait for people to do that, so they could take out higher level mages when they were low on XP to defend themselves with. A smart mage would always keep some in reserve, and would actually carry a focus (a staff, usually) to hold XP in so they wouldn't overspend. And you could just straight throw down XP on it, rather than waiting for the spell costs to accumulate.

[Rolan7]

And why did Forgath have to wait until level 4 to use Hold Person? You get access to 2nd level spells at 3rd level Cleric.

Forgath cast Hold Person on Thac0 earlier.  With a reasonable wisdom score (between 14 and 21) he only had 2+1 level 2 spells at third level.  Now he has 3+1 (the +1 being the somewhat restricted "domain" spell) so he's already cast half of his best magic.  Having 2 more spells is better than 1 more spell though.  Keep in mind cleric have to pick their spells ahead of time, so he likely only had one Hold Person prepared that morning.  I wonder what Herbert's domains are?

Edit: Oop and he cast Cure Moderate Wounds, meaning just one level 2 spell left.

From context I think people are right that he gained the new level and spell for the door puzzle being solved (perhaps bonus XP for noble sacrifice).  It's certainly not RAW, but I guess it's convenient and cool.

[Flying Dice]

That'd be the rule I'd like to see followed as far as things like this go; you're houseruling for the purposes of narrative drama instead of avoiding stupid/unbalanced parts of RAW, that's all.

[Bauglir]

That'd be the rule I'd like to see followed as far as things like this go; you're houseruling for the purposes of narrative drama instead of avoiding stupid/unbalanced parts of RAW, that's all.

I actually agree with this approach, it's just fun to nitpick >______>

Although were I running the game, letting Kore cast would be a not-fun option. But that's just because of my group - enough of us know the rules well enough to expect that Hold Person would lock him down unless he made the save, so breaking that expectation to let my antagonist keep on truckin' would've been shutting down player agency (especially since, if Kore is a paladin, relying on a failed save is a huge, huge gamble which should be rewarded, if anything).

[GiglameshDespair]

The odd thing is I assume Kore shouldn't try to kill Forgath and Minmax if they hadn't tried to escape. If they were fighting the goblins, they obviously weren't contaminated with evil (else Kore would be evil in his own eyes and thus deserving of death) and Kore never saw them with snake-lady. I don't think Kore is meant to be kill everything. He killed that child because it had spent time among evil beings and thus could be corrupted, but I doubt he considers anything that has anything to do with evil, well, evil.

[Xantalos]

Well, Forgath is opposing him = evil.
Minmax helped gobbos = eeeeevil.

[GiglameshDespair]

That's my point. If Forgath and minmax had fought the gobbos like they planned, Kore owuldn't have seen them as evil, so they'd be fine.

[Rolan7]

Although were I running the game, letting Kore cast would be a not-fun option. But that's just because of my group - enough of us know the rules well enough to expect that Hold Person would lock him down unless he made the save, so breaking that expectation to let my antagonist keep on truckin' would've been shutting down player agency (especially since, if Kore is a paladin, relying on a failed save is a huge, huge gamble which should be rewarded, if anything).

That's something weird I noticed: Paladins don't actually have good will saves.  If Kore is level 10, his will save is a mere +3 (plus wisdom modifier, plus *charisma* modifier because of "divine grace" class ability).  That's likely to be around a 10 assuming his charisma and wisdom stats are actually high.  Forgath's hold person spell would have a DC of 12 plus his wisdom, so probably at least 15.  That's roughly a 25% chance of success, not too shabby against a target *6 levels above him*.

Of course, Hold Person has apparently been nerfed in this universe, but Forgath prepared it without expecting a divine spellcaster.

About whether Forgath and Minmax could have avoided Kore's ire: I don't think so.  The way Forgath reacted, I suspect Kore kills *everyone*.  I don't know what excuse he'd find to kill Forgath, but when he's willing to kill a young child for spending a few months around monsters, he can probably think of something.

Keep in mind he has Detect Evil but doesn't use it.  He doesn't care if someone's evil right now, just if they've been exposed to evil and thus might, someday, do evil.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/12122013/
"Wait, Kore?  You mean like, THE Kore?  The cursed scourge of the realm?  Last of the Greyhill Paladins?  THAT Kore?  Oh no."

[Xantalos]

Kore's at least level 14; Holy Sword and all that.

[Rolan7]

Update, though no color for now.

[Xantalos]

Helmet removal dun dun duuuunnnnn

[kaian-a-coel]

Although were I running the game, letting Kore cast would be a not-fun option. But that's just because of my group - enough of us know the rules well enough to expect that Hold Person would lock him down unless he made the save, so breaking that expectation to let my antagonist keep on truckin' would've been shutting down player agency (especially since, if Kore is a paladin, relying on a failed save is a huge, huge gamble which should be rewarded, if anything).

That's something weird I noticed: Paladins don't actually have good will saves.  If Kore is level 10, his will save is a mere +3 (plus wisdom modifier, plus *charisma* modifier because of "divine grace" class ability).  That's likely to be around a 10 assuming his charisma and wisdom stats are actually high.  Forgath's hold person spell would have a DC of 12 plus his wisdom, so probably at least 15.  That's roughly a 25% chance of success, not too shabby against a target *6 levels above him*.

Of course, Hold Person has apparently been nerfed in this universe, but Forgath prepared it without expecting a divine spellcaster.

In this universe, creatures get a stackable bonus to wisdom as they age, Kor being the last of the Greyhill paladins may be as old as the Axe of Prissan, centuries old, and thus have a tremendous wisdom modifier. Maybe.