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[USEC_OFFICER]

Hang on, Iridium is the rarest thing around, yes? So why is i that they can find enough to waste a hundred pounds or so on a random squad? On a general, for a six inch knife I can see that, but for a random group of misfits to get hundreds of pounds of the guff?

Can't just have the Iridium laying around, I guess. I suppose that you could also handwave it as Iridium alloys (containing very little Iridium) or Iridium-catalyzed super materials (which best explains why other nations would attack to get their hands on the stuff). I think that we need a GM ruling on that to be honest. It'd help clear things up.

I'm gonna give up on making characters and find somebody else to do it for me, every time I make one it invariably results in people complaining about it but never actually trying to be helpful so I can avoid doing it again.

Making a non-Mary Sueish character is easy. Remember that the character is human, and they can't do everything. Instead they focus on one or two strengths at the expense of other things. You can't be good at long-range and close-range combat at the same time (unless you're an NPC). Build your character around something that they'll excel in and rely on other characters to cover their weaknesses. If your character is a sniper, then don't worry about close-quarters combat because another teammate will be there to protect you. If you're good at sneaking, then you shouldn't worry about combat because somebody will provide the firepower that you need. If you can't think of a legitimate situation where your character would be at a serious disadvantage then you probably have a Mary Sue.

[GiglameshDespair]

Uhm he has no special training for fighting alone or in groups. Anybody can fight alone or in a group and I never said he wasn't good in combat, combat is all he's good at he has no uses at all outside of that where as everybody else has non combat related skills. Or nearly everybody else does.

Which in a primarily combat based game, isn't much of a drawback, is it? Also, odd for a special agent. Also.2:hor=Patrick Hunt link=topic=132249.msg4703235#msg4703235 date=1382315816]He has a very specific and defined skill set in which he is very skilled, take him outside of that skill set and he has 0 training and 0 experience and will likely die in 30 seconds flat.
He's good at stealth and covert killing. He has experience in sabotage. Thats it.
[/quote]
That doesn't suggest good at combat to me. But hey, why let anything you've said hold you back? Just keep changing your claims until it sticks.
 

Lean but well muscled just means he's lean but you can see the shape of muscles on his arms and legs. Whats wrong with that? Millions of people fall into that category on the planet.

Not unfair, as it has no practical effect, but a primary feature for Mary Sues is physical attractiveness, which most people agree having well defined muscles is, without the drawback of being 'bulky'.

And that would be because he has no back story to explain why he has these combat skills.
His eye color is unfair now? Seriously? I know half a dozen people with that eye color myself I just picked it at random for him when I was making him up I don't even know what eye colors are rare or not other then gray.

Once again, a common feature of mary sues is having a rare or unusual eye colour. Green eyes are rare. Just another thing to make a mary sue a special snowflake. This is going against your claim your supereffective killing machine special agent wasn't a mary sue.

Infantry : He has guns.
Aircraft : Only if grounded but he has explosives.
Vehicle : He has explosives.

Basically the same as half the team.

If that's all what you meant, why bring it up? You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

As for one of the nations best, thats descriptive and nothing more of how he see's himself. Since he begins the same level as everybody else and balanced the same as everybody else it makes 0 difference in game play it's just how he sees himself.

He's supposedly really skilled. He's a sniper who doesn't need a spotter because he's just that awesome. He's never lost a single man, despite treating them as disposable bait for 15 years of service, not even to bad luck or unhappy happenstance because he's just that skilled.

As for the swords? Why not people carry combat knives for close range fighting I just decided to give him swords instead. One of the others has got an axe.
Except as a CQB'er, her axe is justified, rather than the pointless pair of katanas for a character who is supposed to rely on stealth. An axe can be used to remove barriers. An axe makes sense. You know what's stealthy? A knife. Know what isn't? Two bloody katanas. How would you even use those, anyway? But wait, he's good at combat. But he isn't. It's almost like it changes post-to-post.

[Patrick Hunt]

(( Thank you!!! Somebody finally actually told me specifically what the problem is rather then complaining without actually telling me anything. It's a little hard to stop making a mistake if you don't know what the mistake is and I had no idea what I was doing wrong.
I didn't even know that your physical appearance had anything to do with being a Mary Sue I thought that was based entirely on stats and skills.

Now I actually have an idea what I need to change. It would really help if people would explain why they have a problem rather then complaining about it.

But for the record I picked the build and eye color based on what felt right at the time. I've used multiple different eye colors and builds in games it changes depending on what kind of character I'm building.

I don't think I can change his skills for the game now it's already began but I can edit his appearance without it causing any problems so I'll do that now.
In future however if you have a problem with my character build would you please tell me what the problem is?
This type of character was the norm in the AC group I was playing with so it's what I continued to create here. ))

[USEC_OFFICER]

I don't think I can change his skills for the game now it's already began but I can edit his appearance without it causing any problems so I'll do that now.

We've barely started. I'd be surprised if PrivateNomad didn't let you change a couple of things here and there.

[Patrick Hunt]

Private can I change my skills? I'm only going to make some minor changes to it for the present because theres not much I can alter without ruining the character I intended.

[PrivateNomad]

Private can I change my skills? I'm only going to make some minor changes to it for the present because theres not much I can alter without ruining the character I intended.

Yeah, sure.
Welp time to go searching through people's posts for commands

[Patrick Hunt]

(( I'm assuming you balanced the characters skills out anyway for a level 1 but remove the C4 and his explosives training I'm gonna limit him entirely to anti infantry. The stealth and combat skills are kind of integral to the character so as long as they were balanced at game start they're fine. ))

[GiglameshDespair]

I did tell what was wrong with your character, right in the first post: he seems to have capabilities to take out anything he comes across, and what you said didn't help your case. You just said he was really awesome and could deal with anything (paraphrased). We do tell you what your mistakes are, and then you tend to disagree and keep on doing them, then complain that people are complaining.

If you thought a second, your character doesn't really make sense. A katana cannot be a stealth weapon. It just can't. It's poor for stabbing. It's designed to use in a sort of slashing, dragging motion, which takes up a lot of space and is more noticeable. Two is completely unnecessary and impractical, not to mention additional weight and metal to be detected. A knife provides stabbiness and utility as well. You could try using the katana, but it's like using a warhammer for a nail to hang a painting. #

Same with two pistols: pretty much the only reason anyone ever uses two at once is because they're untrained gangsters who rely on spray and pray, not something you'd expect from a highly trained murder agent. For rate of fire, you've got the P90, which is a compact SMG. As a consequence the second pistol is just dead weight. The only reason you'd have it would be rule of cool, which doesn't fit in with the whole 'logical and practical' thing he supposedly is.

[Patrick Hunt]

He has 2 pistols for back up, Pistols jam or break down if one does he has a spare to fall back on. It's purely a logic thing, carrying one is good carrying a spare is better.
You complained about his ability but didn't explain what was wrong with that ability in the first post which threw me off completely.

As for the 2 Katana, I got the name wrong when I asked for them and didn't realize until just now when I double checked after reading your post.
It should be 2 Wakizashi not 2 Katana. They're much smaller. Still no good for stabbing but that was never part of the plan they're for cutting throats primarily or for use as a slashing weapon rather then stabbing because in a knife fight the longer range will allow him to slash his enemy without being within his enemies stabbing range.

[USEC_OFFICER]

-snip-

You really need to pick a focus for your character. You can't be good at sniping and close-combat at the same time. If you want your character to sneak around and slit throats then ditch the sniper rifle. If you want to snipe people at long distances then ditch the knives. Being able to do both doesn't work, well, unless you want your combat skills to be mediocre overall. Pick a speciality and build your character around it. You don't have to can't do everything yourself. That's what teammates are for.

Same with two pistols: pretty much the only reason anyone ever uses two at once is because they're untrained gangsters who rely on spray and pray, not something you'd expect from a highly trained murder agent. For rate of fire, you've got the P90, which is a compact SMG. As a consequence the second pistol is just dead weight. The only reason you'd have it would be rule of cool, which doesn't fit in with the whole 'logical and practical' thing he supposedly is.

I could see two pistols for a crazy, ultra-prepared, survivalist type character... which doesn't fit in with what Patrick is aiming for (broadly speaking of course). I'm pretty sure that most soldiers would realize the chances of your weapon jamming/breaking down are incredibly low if you take proper care of them. Extra weapons are just deadweight if you don't see some use for them in the near future. Having two pistols and an SMG is just more shit to lug around and make noise as you sneak from place to place.

[Patrick Hunt]

Thats fine carrying 2 is exactly what I intended for him. The vast majority of soldiers and even cops carry a spare because it might jam, it might get damaged, you might get it knocked out of your hands. A spare is always a good idea. Besides I'm still carrying less stuff then at least half the team anyway.

I'm not altering his combat skills I'm keeping them as they are. For a guy with 15+ years of experience and training time being skilled in combat at short, medium and long range is perfectly possible and still gives me no more skills then most of the rest of the team so won't make me any weaker then the rest of you.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Thats fine carrying 2 is exactly what I intended for him. I'm not altering his combat skills I'm keeping them as they are.

...

So you asked for help about not making a Mary Sue, and then mostly ignored everyone's advice and went with a slightly modified version of what you originally had?

...

:/

[Patrick Hunt]

In future I won't make characters with such varied combat skills but this character is built on that principle so to edit that would effectively mean rebuilding the entire character from the ground up.
I've limited what weapons he can use, taken away his explosives and saboteur training and edited his appearance to be much more general.

Beyond that I'm not cutting this character down any further, being entirely contained to combat now is enough editing for this character whether he's mediocre or highly skilled at it thats now all he's good at, I do count stealth as a combat skill.

[USEC_OFFICER]

-snip-

You have clearly learned a bit about making a good character. I am mollified. Here's hoping that your next character turns out better than this one!

[Patrick Hunt]

When it's explained to me bluntly I will learn, but I have a stubborn streak when it comes to altering whats already finished.

His wide combat skills is essential to make him fit the background I'm building around him and for what I intend him to do in the group since he is now the only scout the group has. Unless I missed something I'm by far the closest to a scout so that puts me on lead and suppressed weapons still make noise so the 2 swords are my best option for taking down sentries in combination with stealth where as the guns come into play in battles where your gunfire will conceal mine enabling me to stay out of sight and pick off priority targets.