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[DG]

I would also enjoy the ability to retire a fort. I've been wanting to retire a current one for a while now.

I'd bet on save compatibility being broken by the next version.

Don't worry, realism will never fully appear in the game about alcoholic midgets tunneling into the land of clowns while butchering dendrophilic weirdos.


Weirdness will always abound and remember, toady knows us well. He knows we find it hilarious as fuck to be able to bite a goblin's arm off or punt a kobold across the room by hitting it with a backpack.

The carp bug would never have been fixed if this were true. And elephants would not have changed from the Boatmurdered days. There are other examples to indicate that Toady doesn't factor hilarity or memes into his game design.

[misko27]

Personality rewrites should be interesting. Trees will be very, very interesting. Combat will change a lot. The whole "Fear of death" might change a lot, what with dwarves now possibly being scared just because all their squadmates were just brutalized by a goblin squad, and perhaps rethinking the orders to charge gleefully to his death. Tantrums might be less violent depending on whether dwarves start non-lethal fistfights.


It's not really accurate to say nothing will change, in fact a ton will change, just, a little more for Adventure mode.

[smjjames]

Well, it would also fix up the fact that missions/quests which lead to mountainhome sites (or any goblin and elven sites) are uncompleteable.

[Niccolo]

The carp bug would never have been fixed if this were true. And elephants would not have changed from the Boatmurdered days. There are other examples to indicate that Toady doesn't factor hilarity or memes into his game design.

And plenty to suggest that he does. Case in point, reanimating the skin of a dead animal. Or giant scorpions with the ability to fire crossbows, as illogical as that may be.

Some parts of the game certainly will become more realistic. The carp thing was because they used a generic 'bite' attack, as all biting animals did; most biting animals at this point, though, were bigger than dwarves. Carp also gained swimming skill which strengthened them absurdly. But Toady wanted to introduce individual biting attacks so that we could have giant lions biting you in half kind of thing... Bite strength became dependent on a whole lot of factors, of which the carp had relatively few.

And have you ever pissed of elephants? They can be downright terrifying.



Basically, every new version introduces new layers of complexity to the fold. Animals no longer have two settings: enraged and not yet encountered. The bigger something is, the stronger its bite is. And so on. But there are still quirks in the programming and always will be, because Toady wants this game to be fun.

[DG]

Of course he wants his game to be fun, but he doesn't rely on quirks to do that for him.

[Niccolo]

Of course he wants his game to be fun, but he doesn't rely on quirks to do that for him.

Of course not, that'd be nuts. What I was getting at (in a roundabout way) is that Toady won't remove quirks solely because they're quirks. Some will magically get fixed as he introduces new mechanics (and new ones will undoubtedly appear), but ones he specifically examines will probably only get the boot if he feels that they just don't mesh nicely into the game - not because they aren't quite realistic.

Of course I could be wrong and Toady's next release will cause adventure mode to take a large step away from the slightly zany physics of most fantasy worlds, but I sincerely hope not. I don't mind skulls being tougher than paper or necks actually holding a head onto the body (rather than functioning as a kind suggestion), but a completely down-to-earth model seems like it'd sacrifice madness for realism.

[misko27]

The difference is that those are active decisions on his part. Reanimated skin? He made the decision that, and I quote "It made as much sense as skeletons". Poop? It would be not fun to deal with (and attracts to much attention from moral guardians, given what we might do). It used to be the case that wrestlers were a dangerous threat, on part with armed dwarves of the same level. Hell, they could punch people several tiles away, 20 even. Toady got rid of it. This game may be full of Good Bad bugs, but they aren't going to be left there,they will either be altered to fit or eliminated

[Niccolo]

This game may be full of Good Bad bugs, but they aren't going to be left there,they will either be altered to fit or eliminated

Exactly. My original comment was based on a quote that assumed everything odd was being eliminated. What I was trying to say was that it won't be eliminated, not if toady can find a way to make it fit into the game as he introduces new mechanics and polishes them. Of course ridiculous things will get toned down, but the ability to punch a kobold's skull through its brain will never vanish entirely - to be a badass puncher, you'll simply have to have absolutely insane strength. So the slowly ridiculous stuff will happen, but you'll probably have to work for it.

[WarRoot]

Excepting some FBs, the most challenging megabeast I've had was a bronze colossus, in fact, the marksdwarves ran out of bolts and started pounding on the thing with wood xbows along with the swordsdwarves that were already hacking away. Amazingly the BC never got in any hits and I did have a bit of hilarity when I tried to deactivate the marksdwarves to get them to grab more bolts. That said, I'd welcome more challenging FBs. Right now, a hydra is hardly a challenge with a full squad of legendary swordsdwarves.

While it's true that the new combat changes will change the dynamics of the military, we will figure out how to adapt to all of that.

Had a similar experience with a bronze colossus he just continuously charged one dwarf while the others chopped at it until it couldn't do anything. It's a bit sad that how easily you can just mob a megabeast, even with FBs the challenge comes from their special abilities, or their material, but they don't put up much fight.

How much will it change the dynamics? I mean the split of movement speed and attack speed is probably a bonus for most low speed creatures ( so heavily armoured recruits too )  while reaction moments give a bonus to highly skilled fighters, is that it?

[CaptainLambcake]

lmao

"my mode isn't recieveing attention!"

how about the ability to retire a fortress, and multi tile trees and the works?

adv mode gets sites.  oh no!

[smjjames]

Getting the dwarf, goblin, and elven sites back in is a pretty major change for adventure mode.

[werechicken]

You're forgetting the new, improved circus tents. Has toady mentioned if these will be available to fortress players? (as the current circus and haunted houses are)

Just generally I'd like to see different levels of clowns, from tiny clowns that come tumbling out of their tent (or cotton candy stall) to the tall scary clowns in serious make-up that seem to run the show.

[CaptainArchmage]

No, there are fortress mode improvements to the dwarven psyche. Historical figures get replaced, so you can get a new baron or king. You also have multi-tile trees, and you can retire and unretire your fortresses.

[smjjames]

You're forgetting the new, improved circus tents. Has toady mentioned if these will be available to fortress players? (as the current circus and haunted houses are)

Just generally I'd like to see different levels of clowns, from tiny clowns that come tumbling out of their tent (or cotton candy stall) to the tall scary clowns in serious make-up that seem to run the show.

The new and improved HFS could be something entirely new and not an improved current something. Also, why wouldn't Toady make them available for fortress players.

[iamthelol]

If you can non destructively retire fortresses and unretire them, I'm going to try to play the same civilization with dwarf mode and conquer the world with fortresses.