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[Tyg13]

Caveat: This post shall be probably rather ranty, hard to follow, and with little to no defining point besides anger. That being said, I felt like venting to a forum of my peers so here goes it.

Has anyone else noticed the rampant anti-intellectualism that has been growing in the world as of late? At least within my own community and those I have visited here in America, it seems like people are trying not to think. Or as if knowing things is too much of a burden for them. In my own personal experience, this has become increasingly frustrating, as I pride myself for my knowledge and want to help people out, but they don't wish to be helped.

I am known amongst my peers as a dispensary of unwanted, useless knowledge. Initially, the complaints may have been warranted. Often, when someone would talk about some kind of subject, for example plumbing, I would make a comment as to how the Romans had their pipes, and have been met with much derision for my comments. As such I have learned to dial back the unprompted fact reflex quite significantly. I can understand how some people may not want to be forced to sit through explanations of subjects they did not ask for.

However, what I do not understand is when people become offended, insulted, and angry when I try to answer the questions they ask me. For instance, my mother recently asked me the other day why the wind blows. So I went about trying to explain how the sun heats different parts of the Earth and the difference in pressure creates the air flow. A rather grand oversimplification of the complex systems that drive the winds but I thought it was a simple, sufficient explanation to a question that was asked of me. I say tried to explain, because about two sentences in I was met with a rather blunt "I don't care." Now, I could chalk this up to my mother's personality, but I could go on and on with the list of examples where people just refuse to even listen to the explanation to the question they just asked!

Is there something so wrong about asking someone to think that warrants taking offense? Am I the only one seeing this, or is this just the way it has always been and I was too young and naive to see it? How are people not interested about things in the world? Don't they want to know how it works at all? We're surrounded by crazy impossible things, methods of transportation that work off the combustion of vaporized molecules of dead animals, compressed under layers and layers of rock over millions of years. Show any of our modern implements to a caveman and he would instantly regard them as magic. What's even more crazy and exciting is that we can understand the magic, and replicate it for ourselves. And people don't want to know how to do these things?! Ask any one of them if they wanted a magic wand to wave to levitate objects in front of their eyes and they'd nod vigorously in an instant. But try and explain to them how they could use pulleys to accomplish the same thing, only applicable to any number of problems and all of a sudden you've become boring and insulting. As if the mere notion of having to figure something out was too much for their brain to accomplish.

We've reduced our usage of the single biggest advantage we have over other animals to a minimum. Relegated to the task of keeping track of our favorite shows and movies, making sure we don't miss a single episode of Honey Boo Boo. I know I'm going to come off as just another pedant shouting about the decline of society and how it will be our downfall, but not really. I realize that there will always be enough people around who are enthusiastic about learning about the world to keep us moving forward. I just can't understand the mindset of people who would rather not bother to understand things.

I don't know how to end this, so I'll just ask my fellow Bay12ers on their experiences with anti-intellectualism. Maybe someone else can frame my ramblings more concisely and accurately.

Or maybe I'm wrong, who knows? Maybe there really is no problem, and it's all in my head. I'd love to hear from some level-headed people to compare experiences.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

people have always been like this, its not just now.

Part of life is dealing with people you may or may not deem as complete and utter idiots who want nothing more than to live blissfully under a rock.

[freeformschooler]

Well, considering the whole post was you-centric and all about how people react to you saying things, it could be the way you say stuff rather than what you're saying. For example: in college, I know an older gentleman who will spout random, useless facts about stuff (sometimes on-topic, sometimes not). I do the same thing, but he's disliked for it, and I'm not. Why? Because he does in a way stereotypical of people with ASDs. He didn't know when to stop, he didn't respect social or personal boundaries, and he couldn't tell when people just weren't interested. Unfortunately, he was also unaware of all this, and likely wouldn't know how to fix it even if he was, so instead he complained occasionally that people just weren't smart enough to appreciate the things he said.

When I do the same thing, it's often funny or at least interesting to people around me. Before getting all self-sure about your intellectual superiority, maybe take a moment and make sure it's not a social ineptitude problem because what you're describing often is.

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I was expecting this to be more about the general culture in America of distrusting "experts" and valuing folksy wisdom, stuff like how King of the Hill is always putting weedy liberals from New York in their place (though that's generally done with a decent degree of satire going both ways).  This idea of eggheads on their ivory towers vs Joe the Plumber, and what do they know anyway we needs oil.

If someone asks a rhetorical question and you start sciencing at them, that's probably gonna annoy them, and I'm not sure that's anti-intellectual.

[Tyg13]

Yeah, sorry. I'm terrible at conveying what I want to get across. This was more of a vent-y thing anyways. I've often considered it's just me and the way I approach things. At any rate, sorry to kind of fluctuate between ranting about myself and my intent which was anti-intellectualism in general. I just felt like being angry and getting validation from my peers, which is not really what this board is about, really. I'll have to reexamine my behaviors and see where potential misunderstandings in intent may lie. Or where I'm just being completely irrelevant to other's discussions and interjecting my own random musings that have nothing to do with what they're conversing about. I try not to come off as being all "superior" because I really don't want to assert some kind of dominance over others, not consciously. I just really like being able to share the awe I feel about understanding the world around us. This does not usually work.

[freeformschooler]

I've found the highest concentration of people who are interested in those kinds of things are in college and big cities. If it's something you really want to do outside the internet, maybe go to one of these places if the haven't?

[Darkmere]

John Stuart Mill, 1861:

It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, is of a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question. The other party to the comparison knows both sides.

This isn't new, and you aren't the only one.

The danger lies in taking the above attitude seriously. Some people just don't give a damn and are happy like that (magnets! how to they work!?), so learn how to talk (or not talk) about things to those kinds of people. Related: throwing out random factoids like that will make you seem like a know-it-all if you're not careful about the context. From their perspective it looks like you're trying to insert yourself tangentially into a conversation. If the conversation wasn't already about Roman sewers and you spontaneously bring it up, it feels like you're trying to derail the topic.

The solution that worked for me was to keep my mouth shut around people who don't care, and keep in contact with my intellectual friends (all of whom I met in college, FYI) for that sort of discourse.

[Vector]

Yeah, exactly.  If you're going to be an intellectual, you need to learn a couple things:

a. Keep your conversations on-point and your explanations well-tuned to the audience
b. Don't bash mass culture.  It just makes you look like a tool

It's tempting for people with an analytical bent to elevate themselves over others, since the masses keep trying to push them down.  On the other hand--it's precisely this practice of self-elevation and judgmental opinion that legitimizes the hatred of people who know a little more about the facts.

Sharing your information is an act of power, which other people need the ability to reject--and which you need to learn to temper by allowing others to show their unique value and worth, and intentionally building them up.  Learn these things and your life will not only be easier--you'll probably discover that those around you aren't anywhere near as "anti-intellectual" as you seem to think.

[Eagleon]

Realize that just because someone is not an intellectual or doesn't value intellectualism (or Roman sewer systems), doesn't make them anti-intellectual. To be anti-intellectual would be to go out of your way to attack people that like doing what you do. It could instead mean they see value in something that you might not actually understand yet, or are even capable of understanding, about the world or themselves.

Coming to peace with the world, enjoying what you have, and going after what you want from life doesn't require knowing everything about it - just enough ambition to pursue those things. If your goal and passion is to know everything, more power to you, I definitely share your awe and joy for learning. But what you see as lack of curiosity may just be people loving their life and chosen purpose, and resenting people like you as another missionary telling them that they're fools. Deciding that 'our biggest advantage that we have over other animals' is our primary purpose to fulfill is just as arbitrary and personal an opinion as deciding that it's 'grapefruit'. I've often found that the least curious people make the best friends.

[Jelle]

Mhm there does seem to be some sort of inverse relation between intellect and the striving for knowledge, to being cool and striving for social standing, doesn't there? Oftentimes I wonder wether the stereotype coolkid (extended to pretty much any age group) acts stupid because it's cool, or if the two are mutually inclusive. Wichever the case I can't help but cringe when I hear some go as far as boasting their substandard mental capabilities. Going from taking pride in ignorance to looking down on conscious thinking.
So yes what is it then, a shift of importance from intellectual things to thinking in terms of social standing, or intellectualism being outright socially unattractive, to the point of many seeing intellect and rational thought as insulting and threatening? A bit of both maybe?


That said, I do think knowing facts and trivia isn't neceseraily intellectual. Sure when it's relevant not knowing is ignorance, but when largely irrelevant, it's just that, trivia.

b. Don't bash mass culture.  It just makes you look like a tool

Have to disagree here, in my opinion if there's a good rational reason then don't go with the flow, that's herd behavior. Hell if the matter in question is truly important, to yourself and the person/group in question, go right against the flow and make a difference. Unless you value your social standing more that is, or if you absolutely need said standing to function and survive. Humans are social creatures after all, sometimes you do need to compromise to survive.
I should also note that my advice is,socially speaking, the worst and is probably best ignored. 


Edit: I should double check what google translate spouts out sometimes.

[Vector]

There's also circles in which people try to grow their intellectualism-peens and spout poorly-considered, over-processed Nietzsche to their peers in order to improve their social standings.

[Jelle]

There's also circles in which people try to grow their intellectualism-peens and spout poorly-considered, over-processed Nietzsche to their peers in order to improve their social standings.

Yes, annoying that. Pretentious intellectualism is the worst kind of boot licking.

[Gervassen]

I occasionally like to conceive of myself as a decently well-informed individual. Over a decade ago now, I studied Latin for several years and even read Vitruvius in the original language. He's the best primary source for Roman building techniques. I can affirm that someone lecturing me about Roman sewers would put me to sleep. If that's what tickles your fancy, there's nothing for it but to get a proper PhD and torment with your soporific droning all the poor undergrads who just want to be about their beer and tawdry assignations.

[Jifodus]

For instance, my mother recently asked me the other day why the wind blows. So I went about trying to explain how the sun heats different parts of the Earth and the difference in pressure creates the air flow.

The bolded part is probably all your mother cared about in response to her question. After mentioning that wind is caused by differences in air pressure, if she had further interest then she may ask what causes the differences in air pressure. Not everyone is capable of consuming or processing an information dump in a single sitting.

If anything, I'd probably argue that your rant on anti-intellectualism is itself anti-intellectualism. It's not really thinking about the problem, it's more 'people aren't listening to me, ergo people must be stupid and anti-intellectual' (and your caveat loosely implies that you already know it to be true) and simply stopping there, it's not being intellectual and exploring the reasons for why that might be the case.

Disclaimer: I had to look up the definition of intellectualism to write this post.

[Vector]

Have to disagree here, in my opinion if there's a good rational reason then don't go with the flow, that's herd behavior. Hell if the matter in question is truly important, to yourself and the person/group in question, go right against the flow and make a difference. Unless you value your social standing more that is, or if you absolutely need said standing to function and survive. Humans are social creatures after all, sometimes you do need to compromise to survive.

Culture bashers don't usually talk to the people they're actually bashing, though.  It's just a symbol of superiority.  "Hey, you know, you and me, how we all hate Keeping up with the Kardashians. . ."

Say to a 13-year-old girl's face "Twilight sucks ass but I respect you as a person," or to a 3-year-old "Teletubbies suck but I think you'll grow up okay," and I'll say you're still completely missing the point, but at least you've demonstrated that you have convictions you believe in that are totally detached from bashing on "the sort of person who likes THAT sort of thing."  But, truth is, I've pretty much never seen these behaviors anywhere except as ways to identify yourself as part of a group--a group that is an improvement.