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Why does Harder Mining turn you off? :P

Warpstone
Coal Dust
Rock Wraiths
Balrogs & Shoggoths
The artificial difficulty of it, that it might kill and you can do nothing against it.

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Author Topic: Harder Mining Button  (Read 3296 times)

zach123b

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2013, 05:35:21 pm »

i usually have a hallway then place a couple (3-4) cage traps for the wraiths. terrified when i forget and wraiths show up then i usually wall in the place while i sacrifice a couple, only happens to me early in the game :(

the coal dust is annoying but i haven't had an issue with it lately using peat for coal
warpstone is annoying and i just stay far away from the stuff, rarely mining the weak warpstone
the rubble idea scares me lol
haven't met a shoggoth or balrog yet..
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snelg

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2013, 05:56:37 pm »

Don't have very much experience with masterwork yet and have harder mining active but here goes.

Mainly my problems with harder mining is that it adds a lot of micro-management to avoid murdering your dwarves, especially early. And even then you still have to hope the RNG doesn't decide to screw you over.

While I've only been running into coal dust and warpstone the impression I get from the others I hear about is that they might be even more tedious to deal with.

Would it be a good idea to make them less of a random instant deadly problem and just give you some temporary problems instead?
For instance to have dwarves always survive coal dust but have their speed decreased for a while or some other minor effects? Some kind of temporary sickness perhaps?
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s20dan

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2013, 06:05:37 am »

I always keep harder mining on.  Maybe I have been lucky but I have not encountered any Balrogs, only a handful of Metal Wraiths that fell quickly to my military.  Haven't had that much trouble with Black Lung, but I tend to burn wood to create charcoal as I never find much coal.

  I voted for coal dust though, as Black Lung should be treatable. Ideally by the Doctor using an antidote.

 Literally the only part of MasterWork I do turn off are the Warlocks.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2013, 05:18:24 pm »

Coal dust still kills within a week.  I usually make dwarves I hate or who are worthless mine.  Maybe instead of lung necrosis, they could just cough blood?

Srial

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 10:21:41 pm »

I turn off harder mining for your last reason.  It's needless and arbitrary risk for no interesting gain.  (I suppose stable warpstone is a benefit, but I've never made a warpstone lab, or seen much of a point to one.)

What really bothers me about is it is it's a completely regressive risk.  All the danger is up front when you're at your weakest.  Once you have a decent military and a guildhall it's almost zero risk.  Until you have those things, death is random and sudden unless you micromanage a lot. And that needed micromanagement is at the beginning of a fort, when I'm already trying to hyper micromanage my initial 7 to get as much done as I can before anything bad hits me.

Now compare this to harder farming, smithing and smelting which are more progressive risks.   Harder farming doesn't hurt you on day one when making your first burrow, but years later when you run out of food with 150 dwarves and/or have to defend above ground farms which can be harder to secure against late game flying invaders.  Harder smelting only harms with any regularity once you have a robust metal industry.   Harder smithing is only a pain if you're trying to make tons of armor or weapons out of metal, say to skill up to legendary for weapon/armor smiths.

Just my two cents
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kamikazi1231

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2013, 07:02:39 am »

I've always had problems with metalwraiths.  Got to the point where I'd mine the one wrong gold ore and see four or five metalwraiths spawn and tear apart my miners.  It was micromanagment far too much.  I'd end up digging out all the area around a gold vein, cage trapping the entrance, have my fully armored military down there, then sending in a useless sacrificial miner to dig up the gold.  If I was lucky the army of war mastiffs and military would take out the wraiths.

For a while I would fully armor and train my miners along with battlepicks but it did no good. Having a lot wraiths spawn on one tile seemed to overwhelm the best of my battle miners.  I'm not sure if the spawn mechanic is different now, but it always freaked me out when the dwarf would leave behind body parts from spawning the metalwraiths.  Most the time the dwarf would respawn without equipment too and be slaughtered too fast.

I still try playing with it on.  I just hate having to micromanage around veins, then find a sacrificial dwarf to mine it out who hopefully doesn't have too many friends or family in the fort to be depressed when he dies.  I enjoy trapping the wraiths though and dropping goblins on them later or releasing them in controlled ways for my crossbow military to train on.  I've never ran into a balrog or shoggoth, but I imagine they would be a much more horrifying version of what I'm experiencing now.
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the1337doofus

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2013, 08:58:35 pm »

Mainly, my big problem with it is the coal dust and the metal/rock wraiths. I'm okay with the balrogs and shoggoths, they're rare enough for me to not care about them. Warpstone is an annoyance, but I don't hit it often enough for it to make considerable damage, and it makes cool things.
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Morwaul

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Re: Harder Mining Button
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2013, 09:07:42 pm »

So either a rebalance, or a split, or both, should be in order.

My idea atm:
 - Coal dust should kill very slowly. The Apothecarius can immunize against it.
 - Warpstone as is, but no longer immunity for Masons Guild miners. The Apothecarius can immunize against it.
 - Rubble causes dust-explosions when mined, doing minor injuries. Masons Guild miners are immune to this.
 - Delete Rock Wraiths
 - Shoggoths are fine, the temple has a "kill all shoggoths" reaction
 - Balrogs are ok, they are rare enough.

This would be perfect.  Make it harder than vanilla but not tedious. 

I save scum like crazy when laying out my fort as I dig whole floors at a time.  I then find it irritating having a clump of undug walls in the middle of a chamber because I know there is a wraith somewhere in there. 
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