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[Tacyn]

Short summary:
A Treasure hoard is a place, where wealth is stored.
Fortress dwarfs expect a Treasure hoard's value to increase over time and to be able to visit during breaks.
The Treasure hoard's value attracts immigrants and attackers to the fortress.
The hoard is guarded by the fortress guard and even dwarfs try to steal from it.


Dwarfish Philosophy
Just as alcohol is necessary to get a dwarf through the day, the pursuit of wealth is a central part of Dwarfish Philosophy.
Nothing represents this concept more to a dwarf than a big pile of gold. The bigger the better!
However in the world of Dwarf Fortress wealth attracts anything from kobolds and goblins to dragons, while the average dwarf loses fights even against carp.
As such the chances for an individual dwarf to maintain a private treasure is near impossible, although of course some adventurers try anyway.
Hence, dwarfs instead build fortresses around communal treasure hoards with the purpose to protect their shared wealth as well as to further increase it.
Inside the fortress every dwarf is allowed to visit and expects the value of the treasure to increase since his last visit.
Even liaisons visit the treasure as the dwarfs are also proud to show off their wealth. This also announced the wealth of the fortress to the world.
As fortress overseer it is the player's duty to organize, increase and protect the hoard.


What is treasure?
Treasure can be anything of value. What counts as treasure could even change over time.
Some possible criteria are:

1. Silver, gold and rare gems:
 Silver, gold and rare gems as well as items made of these materials  always count as treasure.

2. Preferences:
The preferences of the currently highest noble or an average of the preference of all dwarfs determines what is a treasure.
For example if several dwarfs like a microline and tables, even microline tables are a treasure.

3. Fortress age:
In a young struggling fortress even low-quality items made of cheap materials can be used as treasure.
However over time the requirements on value and quality would increase.

4. No artifacts:
Artifacts should not count as treasure as they are too valuable compared to everything else.
Furthermore in the future, artifacts will hopefully get beneficial properties of their own that would be wasted
if they are simply stuck in the hoard.


What is the hoard?
The actual implementation is flexible, but should fulfill the following criteria:
Its value is the sum of the value of the items and furniture inside that are considered treasures.
Treasures can be added via designation similar to the way items are marked for trade.
Treasure placed there cannot be traded and removing something should not be allowed or have a negative effect,
for example an unhappy thought if a dwarf notices a missing item.
If an item loses its treasure status, it is again handled as any other item lying around outside a stockpile.
It has to be accessible by fortress dwarfs and liaisons.

A slight variation of the trade depot could be implemented quickly, while a room with  chests for items and erected furniture would be more visually striking.

 
Expected value and Reputation
The wealth contained in the hoard should reflect the amount of work done in the fortress.
While dwarfs are not paid for their work directly, each of them expects their contribution to have a proportional impact.
Besides the obvious crafting professions, all jobs even haulers and soldiers count towards the expected value.
Nobles on the other hand would expect a certain value even without contributing or even their very own treasure.
The expected value is then the sum of expectations of each living dwarf.

The difference between the expected value and the actual value stored in the hoard influences the reputation of the fortress and the motivation of its inhabitants.
If the value is lower, immigration slows down or even stops while the dwarfs work slower as they lose motivation if they think their work does not accomplish enough.
If the value is significantly higher than expected, they gain a motivation boost and work and fight harder,
but their expected value increases faster and more dwarfs migrate to the fortress until the difference catches up.


Invasions
As before the wealth of the fortress attracts thieves and invaders. But now they have an actual goal inside the fortress besides murdering all your dwarfs.
What they do once they reach it depends on the type of invader.
Goblins for example would grab a piece of the treasure and try to flee.
If an invasion is successful, the invaders could plunder the hoard and leave, while ignoring the remaining fortress population.
A Dragon on the other hand could decide to make it his home and kill anyone trying to enter (e.g. Smaug from the Hobbit).
Others such as undead ignore it and continue to go after the living.


Theft and Fortress Guard
From time to time even a fortress dwarf might try to steal some treasure.
This can be influenced by several circumstances:
1. A dwarf that is simply greedy or a bored thrill seeker is more likely to steal something.
2. If an item in the treasure matches his preferences he is more likely to steal it.
3. Unhappy dwarfs are also more likely to steal.
4. It could be a type of mood.
5. The presence of guards deters dwarfs from theft.

The captain of the guard and his squad are automatically stationed around the treasure hoard.
If a theft is successful, the thief gains a significant bonus to his happiness.
If the theft is later on noticed, an investigation starts and the sheriff/captain of the guard can be ordered to search for the thief.

This could even be used to prevent a tantrum by letting unhappy dwarfs first steal something and then dismissing the investigation or giving them only light punishment.
However, as mentioned before items going missing should have some negative effect on the rest of the fortress.

[...]The likelyhood of an objects disappearance being noticed is directly related to its relative value when compared to the rest of the treasure hoard. It can also be tied into whether it is a masterpiece (the dwarf who made the masterpiece is more likely to notice one of them missing), and if it is a masterpiece should give the creator a negative thought similar to the current one, except that if the item is found (say, if another dwarf stole it) they get a happiness BOOST.

Optional Feature
Lastly, the treasure hoard should be optional to a working fortress.
Just like alcohol, not fulfilling the expectations of your dwarfs could possibly slow them down or prevent promotion of the fortress.
However, the fortress should still continue to function such that players who for example focus on mega projects can ignore this feature.     


Purpose
I am suggesting this feature as I think that it could solve several problems of the current fortress mode.

1. Giving a reason to create wealth.
  Currently the only use for valuable items is to sell them to visiting caravans, which can already be bought empty of anything useful rather easily with old clothes and weapons.
  Even increasing the cost and usefulness of caravan items, only delays this. This feature would give a permanent use to wealth and encourage digging deeper for more valuable resources.

2. Allows regulating immigration speed and severity of attacks.
  Another annoyance is that immigration and attacks depend on the fortress wealth as a whole which is rather difficult to control.
  This feature would allow players to regulate them to rates with which they are comfortable.

3. Gives invaders and thieves an explicit target inside your fortress.
  Currently a successful goblin invasion most likely means the end for the fortress. With this feature a fortress could eventually recover from ambushes and invasions.

4. Introduces crimes for Fortress Guard to prevent or punish.
  Next, the current justice system is rather useless. Introducing punishable crime to fortress mode gives it an actual purpose.

5. Differentiates dwarfs further from other other civs.
  The idea of a treasure hoard shared by the entire fortress could be unique to dwarven culture. This would be opposed to humans, who strive for individual wealth.
  On the technical side it is a less complicated alternative to the failed fortress economy.
  However it also wouldn't exclude having an economy as the hoard could serve as a base for a fortress internal currency.

6. Possibility to prevent/stop tantrum-spirals.
  Lastly, the treasure hoard could lessen or stop the effect of tantrum spirals. As unhappy dwarfs are more likely to steal,
it becomes likely that a dwarf who previously would have had a tantrum now instead either gets a happiness boost from a successful theft or
gets caught and has his tantrum in a jail cell.

[Detoxicated]

Awesome idea, it would give purpose to the unnecessary coins too.

[Maklak]

What about maps with 10k+ gold or silver? Steel and iron are the only truly valuable metals in DF.

[assasin]

I'm a bit neutral about this. It seems to be doing too much at once I'd rather not have this be used to patch up systems which really should have complete overhauls or partially implement features which should be implemented fully. I'm not saying I disagree with the details, its just that grouping it all up into one arc doesn't seem to mesh well.

[4maskwolf]

I agree that this is a fantastic idea, with one minor note: the theft feature would be better implemented along with the economy, while the rest of the features can be implemented more immediately. I like it because it gives me a reason to make all of those random crafts and stuff.
I also have something to add. Perhaps the likelyhood of an objects disappearance being noticed is directly related to its relative value when compared to the rest of the treasure hoard. It can also be tied into whether it is a masterpiece (the dwarf who made the masterpiece is more likely to notice one of them missing), and if it is a masterpiece should give the creator a negative thought similar to the current one, except that if the item is found (say, if another dwarf stole it) they get a happiness BOOST.

[Felblood]

It would be cool if the fortress recognized these types of things and provided an incentive to build them (outside of treasure tombs, which are already in, and would probably have their value system re-used for your hoards). That will probably be added in as fortress types and purposes are developed and fleshed out. You could consider a treasure hoard a special type of mega project.

In the mean time, you can do this yourself, like so:

Build a statue garden room, out of the most expensive statues you have available, and try to keep them up to date.

Designate the empty floor tiles as a storeroom for high-value trade-goods.

Notice that haulers taking goods the the depot now have to trip over partying nobles.

Now, it would be nice if coins could be piled loose on the floor, or even act as flows, but coinage stacking issue have been discussed at length in other threads.

[Tacyn]

I'm a bit neutral about this. It seems to be doing too much at once I'd rather not have this be used to patch up systems which really should have complete overhauls or partially implement features which should be implemented fully. I'm not saying I disagree with the details, its just that grouping it all up into one arc doesn't seem to mesh well.

That wasn't my intention with this suggestion either. Incomplete systems should still get their overhauls.
For me personally, it is important that a feature doesn't "hang in the air".
That is why I added all those points about how treasure hoards could interact with existing and planned features.
In the justice system for example, I think of it as an addition instead of a solution.

I agree that this is a fantastic idea, with one minor note: the theft feature would be better implemented along with the economy, while the rest of the features can be implemented more immediately. I like it because it gives me a reason to make all of those random crafts and stuff.

About the economy, I actually have a strong opinion that it should not be implemented and actually would like to see this instead.
An In-Fortress economy just seems like a big mess that is both too difficult to implement and to deal with once it's in.
Of course, I know that many will disagree and the final decision is Toady's.

I also have something to add. Perhaps the likelyhood of an objects disappearance being noticed is directly related to its relative value when compared to the rest of the treasure hoard. It can also be tied into whether it is a masterpiece (the dwarf who made the masterpiece is more likely to notice one of them missing), and if it is a masterpiece should give the creator a negative thought similar to the current one, except that if the item is found (say, if another dwarf stole it) they get a happiness BOOST.

I think I'll add this to my top post.
The Happiness boost should require that the thief is punished and the item returned.

It would be cool if the fortress recognized these types of things and provided an incentive to build them (outside of treasure tombs, which are already in, and would probably have their value system re-used for your hoards). That will probably be added in as fortress types and purposes are developed and fleshed out. You could consider a treasure hoard a special type of mega project.

This reminds me of something I forgot. An abandoned fortress would keep the stuff in the hoard where it was.
Unless the fortress was plundered in the meantime, an adventurer returning to it could himself search for the treasure.
This is, I think, close to what Toady initially planned for fortress mode.

In the mean time, you can do this yourself, like so:

Build a statue garden room, out of the most expensive statues you have available, and try to keep them up to date.

Designate the empty floor tiles as a storeroom for high-value trade-goods.

Notice that haulers taking goods the the depot now have to trip over partying nobles.

Now, it would be nice if coins could be piled loose on the floor, or even act as flows, but coinage stacking issue have been discussed at length in other threads.

Yes, I could do it already. The Queen of my fortress already has rooms where all furniture is made from gold.
However, it is just that: a fancy construction. It doesn't have any real purpose within the fort.
For a game about dwarfs striking the earth for riches, the lack of purpose for wealth kinda breaks immersion.
 

[Neonivek]

Actually let me correct you.

The game recognizes value and that is what sets how many immigrants you can have.

If you made your fortress entirely out of gold you would have as much more immigrants then you would one that was only made of stone.

[Tacyn]

Actually let me correct you.

The game recognizes value and that is what sets how many immigrants you can have.

If you made your fortress entirely out of gold you would have as much more immigrants then you would one that was only made of stone.

Yes, I know. My point is that this metric is very hard to control.
A lot of things can make your fort more valuable than you would like or even makes sense.
Cooked food has too many multipliers, Steel is as valuable as gold, the value of engravings shouldn't interest attackers and your first artifact can easily double your fort's value.

Part of my suggestion is to use the value of the treasure hoard instead, where you can directly control how much and how fast the value increases.

From RP perspective it should make sense to have the hoard as the direct measure of a fort's success because it is wealth the fort can afford to keep and protect instead of selling to caravans or being used up such as food or clothes.
Of course, food/alcohol supplies and architecture can be additional factors, but should then be circumstantial, e.g, immigrants fleeing from a site with food shortage are more likely to come to your fort if you have a surplus of food.


 

[Manveru Taurënér]

I think that whenever the value modifiers get redone to more reasonable levels that should mitigate the situation much better than having some treasure horde mechanic to game the system with tbh. Keeping wealth in nearby stockpiles and slowly funneling into the horde as you see fit wouldn't make much sense from a realism pov, which is exactly what many people would do like this.

As for the general idea, I'd rather see much of it evolve on its own with more advanced AI and whatnot. That is that the rooms with the highest values end up the targets of thieves and whatnot, regardless of designation, which any player player constructed horde would obviously fall into. The general concept of a horde is one I very much support though ^^